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Old 02-26-2010, 09:13 AM   #1
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Utah Bill Criminalizes Miscarriage

A bill passed by the Utah House and Senate this week and waiting for the governor's signature, will make it a crime for a woman to have a miscarriage, and make induced abortion a crime in some instances.

According Lynn M. Paltrow, executive director of National Advocates for Pregnant Women, what makes Utah's proposed law unique is that it is specifically designed to be punitive toward pregnant women, not those who might assist or cause an illegal abortion or unintended miscarriage.


Utah Bill Criminalizes Miscarriage | RHRealityCheck.org


Unfortunately it seems the major news outlets aren't covering this yet, I usually try to avoid blogs, but I thought this might spark some discussion.
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:31 AM   #2
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abortion thread?
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Old 02-26-2010, 11:16 AM   #3
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Whatever its "honorable" intentions, there is no way on god's green earth that it won't get twisted by some opportunistic lawyer to try and distort it and be nothing but harmful to women.

And how does this work? Are they going to investigate every miscarriage? Way to make a grieving woman more miserable.
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Old 02-26-2010, 12:08 PM   #4
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Shouldn't instead the bill make it so the third parties attempting to induce a miscarriage/abortion illegally be are the ones charged? I believe that's what its like in other states.
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:38 PM   #5
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Confusion... Why do they call it miscarriage and not abortion? Is it because technically an abortion cannot be outlawed?
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:46 PM   #6
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Pretty much. This is where I feel the pro-choice argument falters: If a doctor can destroy a fetus, why is it that anyone else who does it with the mothers consent gets charged for murder? I just can't wrap my head around that one.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:03 PM   #7
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What about a regular miscarriage? That's a crime now?
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:13 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
Pretty much. This is where I feel the pro-choice argument falters: If a doctor can destroy a fetus, why is it that anyone else who does it with the mothers consent gets charged for murder?
I don't understand why you're offering that as a pro-choice argument.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:15 PM   #9
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Pretty much. This is where I feel the pro-choice argument falters: If a doctor can destroy a fetus, why is it that anyone else who does it with the mothers consent gets charged for murder? I just can't wrap my head around that one.
Say what?!
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:18 PM   #10
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I haven't read the story yet, the site seems to be blocked by my work's firewall. But from "According Lynn M. Paltrow, executive director of National Advocates for Pregnant Women, what makes Utah's proposed law unique is that it is specifically designed to be punitive toward pregnant women, not those who might assist or cause an illegal abortion or unintended miscarriage."

I guess the part about the "unintended miscarriage" is what you called regular miscarriage. How do they prove intent though in every miscarriage case? If I go biking and have an accident and fall and have a miscarriage, some lawyer can say I intended to hurt the fetus by going biking.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:18 PM   #11
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I don't understand why you're offering that as a pro-choice argument.
I wasn't. But I'm saying I don't understand why its legal and acceptable for a doctor to destroy a fetus, whereas anyone else would be charged with murder (If that makes sense?)
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:23 PM   #12
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I wasn't. But I'm saying I don't understand why its legal and acceptable for a doctor to destroy a fetus, whereas anyone else would be charged with murder (If that makes sense?)
Well I do think this is a very gray area, one that's not defined very well. You're talking about if someone murders a pregnant woman why sometimes they are charged with two counts of murder? Am I understanding you right?
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:27 PM   #13
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I wasn't. But I'm saying I don't understand why its legal and acceptable for a doctor to destroy a fetus, whereas anyone else would be charged with murder (If that makes sense?)
Yes. The wording of your sentence was just a bit odd.

I believe this leglislation came about when a young woman hired a guy to basically cause a miscarriage by beating her.

Horrifying. Also horrifying - that this young woman felt this was her best option.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:27 PM   #14
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What about a regular miscarriage? That's a crime now?
No, the action that induces the miscarriage is a crime. Theoretically, you could be observed as inebriated and -- if a miscarriage closely follows -- incarcerated for it.

Fucking insane, frankly. That's Utahn justice for you.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Well I do think this is a very gray area, one that's not defined very well. You're talking about if someone murders a pregnant woman why sometimes they are charged with two counts of murder? Am I understanding you right?
Right. Or if the woman payed someone to induce a miscarriage (i.e. beating her), like in the article.
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Old 02-26-2010, 02:41 PM   #16
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Or it could be twisted to say that a woman's a victim of domestic violence, and her abuser causes a miscarriage, could she be charged with this crime?

Or a woman has a glass of wine at a restaurant, and later miscarries - could she be charged, even though her doctor has told her a glass once a week early in the pregnancy was acceptable?

If a woman miscarries without any obvious external cause, does it get investigated anyway?

How do they find out who's miscarried? Do pregnant women need to be tracked?

Hell to the N-O on this.
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Old 02-26-2010, 06:34 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I believe this leglislation came about when a young woman hired a guy to basically cause a miscarriage by beating her.

Horrifying. Also horrifying - that this young woman felt this was her best option.
It could be a woman's only option if Pac Mule gets his way and outlaws all abortions.
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Old 02-26-2010, 11:37 PM   #18
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what the fuck.
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Old 02-27-2010, 01:32 AM   #19
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Who is Utah Bill and where can I get my hands on him?
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:03 AM   #20
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This is disturbing.
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