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Old 07-26-2019, 12:29 PM   #31
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Since we’ll likely never know, we have to double down on election security as a campaign issue,
Election security should be such a basic requirement of a democratic system and easy to sell.

Unfortunately here you also see polarization. To the left, election security is about the Russians. To the right, election security is about Nancy Pelosi busing in millions of unwashed Mexicans in buses.
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Old 07-26-2019, 01:04 PM   #32
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because the Left wants to punish HRC because ... well, dunno, but their hate for her is something they share with the right
oh for sure man
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Old 07-26-2019, 02:16 PM   #33
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The Russians sure thought so.
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Old 07-26-2019, 02:25 PM   #34
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Donald Trump is a product of Russia. There is nothing broken about the Democratic Party, the United States government, modern society, capitalism, or the media. Centrism is good and right and wins, and it is only when straying from the middle that we falter. Racism was introduced to the United States by the Russians, who were the first country to figure out that it could be weaponized in politics. There were no lessons to learn from 2016 beyond "Russia is bad and we must stop them." The Republicans will come back to the table and negotiate in good faith once we get them disconnected from Russia and the bad president. But only if we avoid moving to the left.
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Old 07-26-2019, 03:19 PM   #35
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For sure, man.
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:12 PM   #36
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Frame 2020 as an election of USA vs Russia. And we all know who is the Russia Party, led by President Kompromat and his sidekick Moscow Mitch.

Trump wants to run agains Omar? The Dems should be running against Putin.
I'm not at all sure why you believe this tactic would be at all successful in an election.

The Dems need to offer hope, something actually worth voting for - instead of screaming "RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA [insert Russian word that pundits only discovered a minute ago and choose to repeat it relentlessly in any context]". I've been long sick of this, and this always has the potential to stoke xenophobia.
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Old 07-26-2019, 08:49 PM   #37
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US Politics XV: Time to Mull Mueller Mania

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Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
I'm not at all sure why you believe this tactic would be at all successful in an election.

The Dems need to offer hope, something actually worth voting for - instead of screaming "RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA [insert Russian word that pundits only discovered a minute ago and choose to repeat it relentlessly in any context]". I've been long sick of this, and this always has the potential to stoke xenophobia.


The hope for elections free of foreign interference?

Given the Russian governments clearly documented actions in the 2016 election and their clear intentions to do the same in 2020, and the Trump campaign’s willingness to accept and work with a declared adversary with anti-democratic and expansionist intentions, it seems fair to me.

The notion that the Democrats are running on RUSSIA only is a right wing talking point, one that I’m not surprised to hear repeated in certain corners of the internet. Let’s let the campaign develop and get a nominee before rendering such judgments.
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:13 PM   #38
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I like that Rachel M said yesterday night - that despite Headline Certainty this, and Headline Certainly that; that nobody at this point in time really knows whats going to happen since what has happened so far is unprecedented.
-----------------------------------------
Also RM said that new info about the meeting mentioned in my post above:
that that meeting may have partly been about how would they go about the steps of impeachment, and deliver it to the Senate.

-------------------------

The Dems will hopefully (and I expect them to) be talking about Health Care, Climate Change, The Dreamers, the Southern Border, College Debt, reducing xenophobia, sexism, racism, protecting the LGBTQI community etc.

Vlad - Putin (Mr KGB) and his oligarch supports - they are dangerous to the US and Western Democracies (flawed as we and they are). I have little problem with the Dems talking about "The Russians" in terms of the government, KGB interference in our election, possibly other cyber attacks etc.
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Old 07-26-2019, 11:02 PM   #39
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from The Hill

Four House Judiciary Committee Democrats said in a Friday op-ed that they will "move forward" with an impeachment effort against President Trump.

Democratic Reps. David Cicilline (R.I.), Pramila Jayapal (Wash.), Mary Gay Scanlon (Pa.) and Veronica Escobar (Texas) wrote in an op-ed published in The Atlantic that after former special counsel Robert Mueller's testimony on Capitol Hill this week, "it is up to Congress to act."

"Our investigation will seriously examine all the evidence as we consider whether to bring articles of impeachment or other remedies under our Article I powers," the four Democrats wrote. "Our Constitution requires it. Our democracy depends on it."

The lawmakers noted that the Judiciary panel has filed an application in court to obtain grand jury documents referenced in Mueller's report, adding they plan to obtain "additional underlying evidence, as well as enforce subpoenas for key witness testimony, and broaden our investigations to include conflicts of interest and financial misconduct."

"Congress has patiently tried to work within traditional means to get to the bottom of this extraordinary situation," the lawmakers wrote. "Committees have called witnesses and requested evidence, only to be stonewalled by Trump and his associates. The president's refusal to comply with the Constitution, statutes, and established congressional oversight defies the rule of law."

The Democrats called Mueller's testimony before the House Judiciary and Intelligence panels this week a "watershed moment" that came three months after his team released its 448-page report detailing findings from its two-year investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and possible obstruction of justice by Trump.

"When the redacted report finally became available to Congress and the American people, it painted a damning picture of a corrupt president who welcomed and encouraged an attack on our country, capitalized on it, and then tried to cover up what he had done," the lawmakers wrote. "At this point, it is up to Congress to act on the evidence of multiple counts of obstruction of justice committed by the president, and to continue our investigation into whether he has committed other high crimes and misdemeanors."

While Mueller's testimony revealed little new information, House Democrats have signaled they are moving forward with lawsuits and subpoenas in the wake of the testimony, even as their caucus remains divided over launching an impeachment inquiry into the president.

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) has said the panel is seeking the underlying Mueller evidence and that lawmakers would decide whether to recommend articles of impeachment against Trump.
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Old 07-27-2019, 07:50 AM   #40
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https://twitter.com/sikhprof/status/...424418816?s=21

I feel like situations like this are only dry runs for what’s going to happen in the next few years.

And with GOP stacking courts, there won’t be any legal means to stop it
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:57 PM   #41
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I haven’t wanted to delve into tin hat territory

...Frame 2020 as an election of USA vs Russia. And we all know who is the Russia Party, led by President Kompromat and his sidekick Moscow Mitch.
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Old 07-27-2019, 08:03 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
The hope for elections free of foreign interference?

Given the Russian governments clearly documented actions in the 2016 election and their clear intentions to do the same in 2020, and the Trump campaign’s willingness to accept and work with a declared adversary with anti-democratic and expansionist intentions, it seems fair to me.

The notion that the Democrats are running on RUSSIA only is a right wing talking point, one that I’m not surprised to hear repeated in certain corners of the internet. Let’s let the campaign develop and get a nominee before rendering such judgments.
didn't have time yesterday

in general
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:20 AM   #43
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lol the baltimore sun editorial board went in...

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As heartening as it has been to witness public figures rise to Charm City’s defense on Saturday, from native daughter House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to Mayor Bernard C. “Jack” Young, we would above all remind Mr. Trump that the 7th District, Baltimore included, is part of the United States that he is supposedly governing. The White House has far more power to affect change in this city, for good or ill, than any single member of Congress including Mr. Cummings. If there are problems here, rodents included, they are as much his responsibility as anyone’s, perhaps more because he holds the most powerful office in the land.

Finally, while we would not sink to name-calling in the Trumpian manner — or ruefully point out that he failed to spell the congressman’s name correctly (it’s Cummings, not Cumming) — we would tell the most dishonest man to ever occupy the Oval Office, the mocker of war heroes, the gleeful grabber of women’s private parts, the serial bankrupter of businesses, the useful idiot of Vladimir Putin and the guy who insisted there are “good people” among murderous neo-Nazis that he’s still not fooling most Americans into believing he’s even slightly competent in his current post. Or that he possesses a scintilla of integrity. Better to have some vermin living in your neighborhood than to be one.
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Old 07-28-2019, 12:11 PM   #44
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I haven’t wanted to delve into tin hat territory, but I’ve always thought this was a possibility. As we’ve discussed, the threading of the electoral needle, the improbable royal flush he was dealt, the unanticipated mistakes of the HRC campaign, how off the polls were (4-5 points in some cases) ... it’s something that the Left and the Right don’t want to be true, because the Left wants to punish HRC because ... well, dunno, but their hate for her is something they share with the right .. and the right wants to win.

Since we’ll likely never know, we have to double down on election security as a campaign issue, and the D’s have a chance here to seize an issue that plays into patriotism. What the Left doesn’t do is make voters feel good about themselves and their country, which is why they lose. A litany of America’s wrongs and expensive programs to fix them — while practical and real and useful —isn’t the way to win a presidential election. Frame 2020 as an election of USA vs Russia. And we all know who is the Russia Party, led by President Kompromat and his sidekick Moscow Mitch.

Trump wants to run agains Omar? The Dems should be running against Putin.
And then Drumpf tells Vladimir he'll have more "flexibility" after the election
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Old 07-28-2019, 06:28 PM   #45
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And then Drumpf tells Vladimir he'll have more "flexibility" after the election




But never mind, Mrs. Garrison, never mind. Who cares what was said then?

Or Mr. Mueller's confident testimony last week in Congress, even.

Who cares?
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