US Politics XV: Time to Mull Mueller Mania

[Diemen]

I know. If only he had some other place to go where his freedom wasn’t being repressed by a bunch of fascists. Or is it communists? I keep getting those two confused. All I know is he’s being treated terribly unfairly by a bunch of freedom haters.

 

[DaveC]

I know. If only he had some other place to go where his freedom wasn’t being repressed by a bunch of fascists. Or is it communists? I keep getting those two confused. All I know is he’s being treated terribly unfairly by a bunch of freedom haters.

conveniently, you just have to say "AOC" now and it covers all of those.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Honest question, or, honest answer rather - i have been out of the loop for the past 24 hours or so therefore i have no idea what comments the Potus may have made regarding this being the worst hurricane ever.



So it's my guess that he misspoke unintentionally and that perhaps you or others are making too much out of his comments, potentially digging to find something out of nothing for some unknown reason? What does matter, at this point, is that there is a big storm out there that will likely cause damage even if it does hopefully veer north away from the mainland.



I would be more concerned about keeping my eye on the ball at this point (the storm) instead of trying to dissect a comment and find some fire where there really isn't even any smoke.

He’s the president. His statements are typically prepared or rehearsed. If not, he was a moral responsibility to be correct. What does it matter? As a scientist and engineer, he outright damages the public understanding of science every time he speaks. He’s a leader. He does this all the time. He “misspeaks” as you say. He conveniently misspeaks in a fashion that riles up his opposition. It’s not random as you suggest.

His words have consequences. You think I’m just digging but that’s not true. I’m searching for understanding as to why he says things that cost us in knowledge, society, or cash. Example: declaring Alabama is going to take a beating... this is what he did. He circumvented the NWS and now the NWS has to go back on his words and stop Alabamans from responding. God forbid the storm does take a freakish turn toward Alabama and all of the sudden the “media” will be blamed when in fact the national weather service is unbiased and regimented band the president spoke out of term.

You can say “there isn’t even smoke” here but I’m literally posting on both fronts in this very thread right now. With subject matter both of my expertise and/or personal experience. If you think I’m biased and digging here, take a long look at the last few pages and ask yourself again.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Maybe you’re not a racist. You seem to be okay supporting one, as I’ve never seen you or any of the other right wingers left here speak negatively of Mr. Trump’s cozying up to racists. I never saw you call out Trump’s “fine people in both sides” comment, or his “go back to their own countries” comments for the racist dog whistles they are.

If you’re not racist, how come you stay silent on that stuff?

Why does it always come down to race with the 6 or 7 people that post here? Funny isn't it?

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

comes in here, trolls and insults everyone like an 8 year old, and then cries and whines to the teacher about everyone (including the teacher) being big ol meanies to him.

so you're a pathetic coward on top of being a childish loser, then. got it.

such a tragedy that he's being forced to post in this terrible awful place overrun with all these terrible awful lefties and deal with the terrible awful moderator, and doesn't have the option to just fuck off to somewhere else on the internet if he wants to post terrible awful shit without being told by people that he's terrible and awful.

back to your drugs little boy

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I just like how the right-leaning posters here are complaining that they're not getting a fair shake when there have been people like myself who did genuinely try and engage with them. I've always tried to hold respectful conversations with any conservatives that come through this site, and I know other posters have done the same over the years.

But hey, by all means, you guys go on with your "everyone's against us" complex.

 

[DaveC]

i've definitely never gotten so high that i became dumb enough to think "you smoke weed lol" is some kind of sick burn.

 

[Diemen]

Why does it always come down to race with the 6 or 7 people that post here? Funny isn't it?

So, you complain about being labeled racist, but completely dodge the issue when given the opportunity to defend yourself. Duly noted.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I just like how the right-leaning posters here are complaining that they're not getting a fair shake when there have been people like myself who did genuinely try and engage with them. I've always tried to hold respectful conversations with any conservatives that come through this site, and I know other posters have done the same over the years.



But hey, by all means, you guys go on with your "everyone's against us" complex.

I’m trying to engage in serious dialogue right now but am being disregarded as simply digging for things to be angry about. ??

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I’m trying to engage in serious dialogue right now but am being disregarded as simply digging for things to be angry about. ????????????

Yep. Case in point, right there.

Regarding the race thing, we've got a president who decided to push a birther conspiracy against Obama for much of his presidency, who's referred to immigrants coming here as an "invasion", who's referred to communities with high minority populations as "infested", who's received support from a notable member of the KKK and numerous white supremacists, and who told four congresswomen of color to "go back where they came from" and stood by silently and didn't chide any of the people at his rallies who shouted, "Send her back!"

But sure. We're the ones who keep bringing race into everything.

 

[BVS]

Hey - you forgot homophobic and misogynist, isn't that your go to when you have nothing else?



Anyway, you don't know me personally but if you did you would realize that what you just posted couldn't be further from the truth.

Hey, I don’t know if this is true, but I just going to put this here for you to determine.

A lot of people are saying, there’s a lot of talk, that’s just what people are saying, that Mrs G might be racist. That’s just what I’m hearing.

 

[anitram]

Even just using the "unintentionally misspeaks" line speaks volumes.

Yes, Trump unintentionally misspoke when he lied about having talks with the Chinese about tariffs in order to juice the stock market. He unintentionally misspoke when he to German press in Europe last week that his father was born in a wonderful place in Germany (otherwise known as the Bronx). He also unintentionally misspoke when 10 days ago he said the dollar was the highest in history or when he said that the farmers are getting $16B in subsidies from China paying tariffs (hint: they don't) or when he said that late term abortions happen when mothers meet with doctors to decide whether to execute the baby once it's been birthed.

No lies, just an honest man making honest gaffes.

 

[Gzusfrk]

I know. If only he had some other place to go where his freedom wasn’t being repressed by a bunch of fascists. Or is it communists? I keep getting those two confused. All I know is he’s being treated terribly unfairly by a bunch of freedom haters.

Just because you’ve been told all your life that radical liberals or leftists, whatever your preferred term is, are communists not fascists because “only right wingers can be fascists”, doesn’t mean it’s true.

Which side wants to start limiting the first and second amendment? The left. Which side shows the most physical violence towards people with different views than them? The left. Which side wants BIGGER government, MORE regulations and restrictions on freedoms? That’s right, the left.

I suggest you start reading up some history on fascism, and see which side is showing those tendencies right now.

And the prime example is this forum. If you don’t agree with the five or six “geniuses “ that watch their post count as if it’s gives credibility , you get shouted down, insulted, whatever.

And a biased moderator, who really would prefer there not be intelligent discourse on actual facts or policies, but keep this as a support group for Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

[DaveC]

Just because you’ve been told all your life that radical liberals or leftists, whatever your preferred term is, are communists not fascists because “only right wingers can be fascists”, doesn’t mean it’s true.

galaxybrain.jpg

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

So, you complain about being labeled racist, but completely dodge the issue when given the opportunity to defend yourself. Duly noted.

Defend myself against what exactly....dodging issues....honestly i am not even sure we are having the same conversation. I'm not held accountable to you, but if something happened while i was away (perhaps banned because i voted against your wishes) i must be held accountable for it now? What kind of logic on display here.....

This place used to be fun. Well all got along for the most part. I know there were ups and downs, but we made it through. I was content to just write stories and nobody seemed to have an issue with that, many in fact seemed entertained.

Then 2016 happened - a lot of you guys on the left absolutely lost your minds. Suddenly everything is racist, from a restaurant chain to the clothes people wear to flags and monuments, etc. YOU were furious, enraged, how the hell could this have happened?!? How dare you deplorable red state white trash!!!

You needed an enemy, you needed an excuse, the media told you we were all racists, etc. You bought it all, every last drop. RUSSIA! RACISM! RINSE & REPEAT. Throw common sense and reason out the window.

Screaming racism because you lost an election....it's just sad. Step away and look at what you are doing here....do you really want to go down this road? People here are now calling me racist here because there is no one else in the room to blame anymore. What happenes when i am gone? Who will you hate then?

Maybe you should all take a long look in the mirror and ask yourselves what you are doing and why.....my conscience is clear...is yours?

 

[DaveC]

yes, we're all still super mad about the presidential election from 3 years ago and are all irrationally taking our multi-year collective temper tantrum out on poor you. we should all feel guilty and ashamed because you're sad that you don't have any buddies around anymore to post sneaky totally-not-racist cracker barrel dogwhistle meme threads with. i'm gonna go log off now and weep at the tragedy of your predicament.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I mean, how dare we be deeply bothered by the fact that a guy who, I will reiterate, spent seven years pushing a racist birther conspiracy against Obama was the one to follow him as president? What could possibly be wrong with those optics, am I right?

And how dare we be bothered by the fact that voters knew full well of his involvement in that conspiracy, knew full well of the pain and harassment Trump's actions caused Obama and his family, and still, at the end of the day, decided, "Yeah, he totally seems like he'd make a good president."

I don't care what else one has to say about why they supported Trump, there is absolutely NO justifiable defense or excuse for that decision. That's just outright shameful. We have every single right to be pissed about that.

 

[BVS]

Just because you’ve been told all your life that radical liberals or leftists, whatever your preferred term is, are communists not fascists because “only right wingers can be fascists”, doesn’t mean it’s true.



Which side wants to start limiting the first and second amendment? The left. Which side shows the most physical violence towards people with different views than them? The left. Which side wants BIGGER government, MORE regulations and restrictions on freedoms? That’s right, the left.



I suggest you start reading up some history on fascism, and see which side is showing those tendencies right now.



And the prime example is this forum. If you don’t agree with the five or six “geniuses “ that watch their post count as if it’s gives credibility , you get shouted down, insulted, whatever.



And a biased moderator, who really would prefer there not be intelligent discourse on actual facts or policies, but keep this as a support group for Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Still, no examples, eh?

Just TDS? That’s all you got?

 

[Irvine511]

Defend myself against what exactly....dodging issues....honestly i am not even sure we are having the same conversation. I'm not held accountable to you, but if something happened while i was away (perhaps banned because i voted against your wishes) i must be held accountable for it now? What kind of logic on display here.....



This place used to be fun. Well all got along for the most part. I know there were ups and downs, but we made it through. I was content to just write stories and nobody seemed to have an issue with that, many in fact seemed entertained.



Then 2016 happened - a lot of you guys on the left absolutely lost your minds. Suddenly everything is racist, from a restaurant chain to the clothes people wear to flags and monuments, etc. YOU were furious, enraged, how the hell could this have happened?!? How dare you deplorable red state white trash!!!



You needed an enemy, you needed an excuse, the media told you we were all racists, etc. You bought it all, every last drop. RUSSIA! RACISM! RINSE & REPEAT. Throw common sense and reason out the window.



Screaming racism because you lost an election....it's just sad. Step away and look at what you are doing here....do you really want to go down this road? People here are now calling me racist here because there is no one else in the room to blame anymore. What happenes when i am gone? Who will you hate then?



Maybe you should all take a long look in the mirror and ask yourselves what you are doing and why.....my conscience is clear...is yours?

Why are you pretending like you’re above this when you’re the OG “but her emails” poster?

Given that the entire Trump ethos is centered around racism — the wall, invaders from the south, birtherism, go back to your shithole countries — it’s racist to not call out the racism as it comes. He wouldn’t do it if he didn’t think it appealed to his voters — racial resentment works. It always has. This isn’t new. Trump is just it’s latest, stupidest, most aggressive manifestation (George Wallace had more tact).

This is a racist president running on a platform of a restoration of white supremacy after a black president. And he was aided and abetted into office by a hostile foreign government (that they werent competent enough to actually collide with, but not for lack of effort) and then they obstructed justice 10 times.

It stopped being fun for you because it isn’t fun. You’re called to account because you have aligned yourself with the undefendable, and sharpers kinda call you out on it, and you can’t compose a coherent argument. Which is probably why he snookered you in the first place.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Which side wants to start limiting the first and second amendment? The left. Which side shows the most physical violence towards people with different views than them? The left. Which side wants BIGGER government, MORE regulations and restrictions on freedoms? That’s right, the left.

I’m always happy to debate when someone chooses to, but you’re genuinely not very good at it. It’s like... when you say it, you think it makes it true. Imbecilic. You offer no substance of free speech limitations. Yes though, the left does want to limit the second amendment (because we have a bad gun violence issue). Both sides show physical violence towards their opposition in petty ways (we’ve seen people go on shooting sprees on both sides! Minorities get beat up all the time, similar to your funny maga people, who generally get left alone but sometimes get their smugness kicked in). Blah blah blah big government is not fascism. Blah blah blah “regulations on freedoms” is the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard - the whole social argument is whether or not to protect someone else’s freedom. So your brainless argument is double sided but you don’t want to hear that. The difference is the left only hates you for hating others.

I suggest you start reading up some history on fascism, and see which side is showing those tendencies right now.

Lol neither are, I suggest you start reading up on fascism because you have no fucking clue what it is. Thank you for ignoring my whole post on it. Maybe you just couldn’t understand it?

And the prime example is this forum. If you don’t agree with the five or six “geniuses “ that watch their post count as if it’s gives credibility , you get shouted down, insulted, whatever.

Dude you can’t feel bad because you’re not very smart. Nobody here is looking at post counts. They’re looking at your posts, which lack in factual content.

And a biased moderator, who really would prefer there not be intelligent discourse on actual facts or policies, but keep this as a support group for Trump Derangement Syndrome.

You’re incapable of providing intelligent discourse. It’s hard to do that when you’re factually incorrect all the time and have failed to educate yourself. Others are capable, and it’s unfortunate that they won’t. You give them a bad name.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

I mean, how dare we be deeply bothered by the fact that a guy who, I will reiterate, spent seven years pushing a racist birther conspiracy against Obama was the one to follow him as president? What could possibly be wrong with those optics, am I right?

And how dare we be bothered by the fact that voters knew full well of his involvement in that conspiracy, knew full well of the pain and harassment Trump's actions caused Obama and his family, and still, at the end of the day, decided, "Yeah, he totally seems like he'd make a good president."

I don't care what else one has to say about why they supported Trump, there is absolutely NO justifiable defense or excuse for that decision. That's just outright shameful. We have every single right to be pissed about that.

Yeah, i suppose this goes back to what i was saying about taking a hard long look in the mirror. Or, to be fair, since you have been so kind to all of us, opinions do tend to vary as expressed below:

https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/296548-how-birtherism-became-hillarys-waterloo

“Hold out baits to entice the enemy,” wrote Sun Tzu, “feign disorder, and crush him.” Hillary, by baiting Trump with the birther controversy, was hoping the outspoken candidate would respond in a manner than that was undisciplined and unpresidential. She was hoping Trump would be Trump. It was a gamble she lost.

“President Barack Obama was born in the United States, period,” Trump said in response. “Now, we all want to get back to making America strong and great again.”

Moreover, Trump turned the issue back on Hillary. In laughing off the attack, Trump reminded America that the so called seeds of birtherism were planted by Team Clinton during her rough and tumble primary with Obama in 2008. He also reminded the American people that he was the one who settled the issue, thus removing the cloud hanging over Obama’s head.

“Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy,” Trump said. “I finished it.”

Patti Solis Doyle, who was Hillary’s campaign manager until the Iowa caucuses in 2008, admitted first in a tweet and second in a CNN interview that a Hillary staffer first spread the birther issue. While the staffer was fired, the termination happened after the cat was let out of the bag. Patient Zero, thus, was a member of Team Hillary.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

yes, we're all still super mad about the presidential election from 3 years ago and are all irrationally taking our multi-year collective temper tantrum out on poor you. we should all feel guilty and ashamed because you're sad that you don't have any buddies around anymore to post sneaky totally-not-racist cracker barrel dogwhistle meme threads with. i'm gonna go log off now and weep at the tragedy of your predicament.

LOL. If you actually read through the infamous "Cracker Barrel" thread then maybe you would notice i never actually posted in there? Then again maybe you were a bit, oh let's just say, "outer limits"

But i do want to thank you guys for bringing that thread to my attention. It really is a good restaurant chain if you've never been there you should give it a try sometime

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Why are you pretending like you’re above this when you’re the OG “but her emails” poster?

Given that the entire Trump ethos is centered around racism — the wall, invaders from the south, birtherism, go back to your shithole countries — it’s racist to not call out the racism as it comes. He wouldn’t do it if he didn’t think it appealed to his voters — racial resentment works. It always has. This isn’t new. Trump is just it’s latest, stupidest, most aggressive manifestation (George Wallace had more tact).

This is a racist president running on a platform of a restoration of white supremacy after a black president. And he was aided and abetted into office by a hostile foreign government (that they werent competent enough to actually collide with, but not for lack of effort) and then they obstructed justice 10 times.

It stopped being fun for you because it isn’t fun. You’re called to account because you have aligned yourself with the undefendable, and sharpers kinda call you out on it, and you can’t compose a coherent argument. Which is probably why he snookered you in the first place.

I will give you partial credit for almost not bringing up the word racism or race baiting in 25 words or less - you came really close there!

 

[Irvine511]

I will give you partial credit for almost not bring up the word racism or race baiting in 25 words or less - you came really close there!

It isn’t possible to talk about Trump and not talk about racism because racism is the core of the Trump political identity. And it has been since the start — remember the Central Park 5? It started way back then. He’s always been more than an aspirational brand for tacky white male assholes — he knows that racial resentment drives his consumers, because they’re white guys who don’t have what he has and he’s giving them someone to blame rather than their own mediocrity. There is no Trump without racialized resentment.

What does Trump offer that isn’t centered around white identity politics? Like, maybe inexplicable antagonism toward the environment? I guess that isn’t explicitly racist?

You simply can’t pretend a conversation is illegitimate because it makes you feel uncomfortable and/or guilty and/or look foolish.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

It isn’t possible to talk about Trump and not talk about racism because racism is the core of the Trump political identity. And it has been since the start — remember the Central Park 5? It started way back then. He’s always been more than an aspirational brand for tacky white male assholes — he knows that racial resentment drives his consumers, because they’re white guys who don’t have what he has and he’s giving them someone to blame rather than their own mediocrity. There is no Trump without racialized resentment.

What does Trump offer that isn’t centered around white identity politics? Like, maybe inexplicable antagonism toward the environment? I guess that isn’t explicitly racist?

You simply can’t pretend a conversation is illegitimate because it makes you feel uncomfortable and/or guilty and/or look foolish.

You simply cannot form a post without attempting to race bait someone, it's just not in you to try and rise above the racial tension that your side has not only created but continues to stoke the fires thereof for no good reason. I realize you feel it makes you some sort of hero to the like minded posters here who lap it up on a daily basis, but outside of your bubble it makes for bad parody to people elsewhere.

 

[Irvine511]

You simply cannot form a post without attempting to race bait someone, it's just not in you to try and rise above the racial tension that your side has not only created but continues to stoke the fires thereof for no good reason. I realize you feel it makes you some sort of hero to the like minded posters here who lap it up on a daily basis, but outside of your bubble it makes for bad parody to people elsewhere.

Why should I “rise above” the racial tension that Trump and his supporters flame on a daily/hourly basis? WTF does that even mean? You don’t get to set the terms of a debate or, rather, avoid actually having a debate because you don’t want to talk about certain things. Literally all you’ve said is “stop playing the race card” — as if that isn’t its own little race card, sweet pea.

You aren’t capable of keeping up with most people in here, so this is your little song and dance.

If you were, you’d make an argument rather than insults.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Why should I “rise above” the racial tension that Trump and his supporters flame on a daily/hourly basis? WTF does that even mean? You don’t get to set the terms of a debate or, rather, avoid actually having a debate because you don’t want to talk about certain things. Literally all you’ve said is “stop playing the race card” — as if that isn’t its own little race card, sweet pea.

You aren’t capable of keeping up with most people in here, so this is your little song and dance.

If you were, you’d make an argument rather than insults.

It seems as though you, not I, are the one making insults.

Sadly I get that you don't want to rise above this racial hell your side has created, it's not in your best interests politically. What you don't seem to realize is that if you keep going down this path it will only get uglier; as in, nobody wins and everyone loses.

I'm not here to set the terms of / or avoid a debate, I am in fact the person who has had "racist" thrown at me and chose to defend myself rather than ignore. To think that i would have to do that here in 2019, after years as a forum member, is just absurd. And yet, here we are.

 

[anitram]

Sadly I get that you don't want to rise above this racial hell your side has created,

It takes a really daft or really racist person to type this with a straight face.

The 80% of African Americans who believe Trump to be racist must have created this “racial hell” that poor suffering you are living in.

You really should be deeply ashamed.

ETA: I guess those people shot in El Paso died because of the “racial hell” they themselves created too.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

It takes a really daft or really racist person to type this with a straight face.

The 80% of African Americans who believe Trump to be racist must have created this “racial hell” that poor suffering you are living in.

You really should be deeply ashamed.

Ah but when an African American supports Trump they are dismissed here as some kind of freak. And a few pages back your biggest race baiter was rooting for Hurricane Dorian to hit Florida. What about the African Americans who live in Florida? I guess you missed that post....


But yet, i should be deeply ashamed, am racist, etc. Nice

 

[Irvine511]

It seems as though you, not I, are the one making insults.



Sadly I get that you don't want to rise above this racial hell your side has created, it's not in your best interests politically. What you don't seem to realize is that if you keep going down this path it will only get uglier; as in, nobody wins and everyone loses.



I'm not here to set the terms of / or avoid a debate, I am in fact the person who has had "racist" thrown at me and chose to defend myself rather than ignore. To think that i would have to do that here in 2019, after years as a forum member, is just absurd. And yet, here we are.

And here you are, not saying anything of value. What are you talking about? What do you have other than an op-Ed in The Hill by a conservative writer? I know it’s exciting to get all huffy and indignant as if you Mr. “but her emails” are beyond reproach, and to pretend like being called a racist is far, far worse than, you know, *actual racism*, the racism peddled by the administration on a daily basis.

You aren’t even debating! You haven’t said anything! You’re *baiting* people to call you a racist, and when they point out that you are defending/supporting an objectively racist administration — even if it’s some juvenile “troll the libs” nonsense — you say HOW DARE YOU CALL ME A RACIST!

I’m completely playing along, and I know this is the reaction you want, but I’m fine giving you as much rope as you need.