US Politics XIII: Don Jr. The Worst Judgment of Anyone in the World.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

so what's the cut off point then where the shitty things that politicians said or did in their past gets a free pass? is it 10 years? 25? you need to set a hard time limit, otherwise that's such an arbitrary notion of cherry picking what "counts" from a candidate's past that you might as well just ignore everything about their history up to the moment they announced their run.

i guess i have to say this yet again already, but i think it's pretty self-evident that if i say "fuck candidate x" i certainly don't mean "don't vote for candidate x in the general election". if biden is the nominee against trump, then not voting for him would be a total moral and ethical failure.

that doesn't mean joe biden isn't near the bottom of the list of people i'd like to see in that spot, though.

There is no hard cut, and it's unfair to hold anyone to the standard of "everything you said in the past is fair game"

There are better ways to judge.

Does the person have a history of going where the wind blows? If yes? Fuck that guy.

No? Okay. Is/has the person followed up their new found change of heart with actual action, or is it just bullshit? Just bullshit? Fuck that guy.

Yes? Alright, let's talk.

 

[dazzledbylight]

Beto also said his wife is at home raising their children "sometimes with my help." I think that sometimes men don't get just how gross statements like this are to us working women. If that's what he's got to offer, hard pass.

Oh, brother (beto, that is)

Also someone here mentioned a few months back that Beto was too supportive of the police (as i understood the post) in terms of being too lax on issues of police abusing people of color in stopping, and potentially arresting people of color. I find that repugnant and would only vote for him in the GE, against orange donnie. Perhaps he'd be willing to learn.

so what's the cut off point then where the shitty things that politicians said or did in their past gets a free pass? is it 10 years? 25? you need to set a hard time limit, otherwise that's such an arbitrary notion of cherry picking what "counts" from a candidate's past that you might as well just ignore everything about their history up to the moment they announced their run.

i guess i have to say this yet again already, but i think it's pretty self-evident that if i say "fuck candidate x" i certainly don't mean "don't vote for candidate x in the general election". if biden is the nominee against trump, then not voting for him would be a total moral and ethical failure.

that doesn't mean joe biden isn't near the bottom of the list of people i'd like to see in that spot, though.

In case someone didn't catch a lot of your posts, or as a new lurker interested in politic just intermittently reading posts here as they try this thread out ; seeing your "fuck x candidate" i don't think they'd automatically assume that immediately.

There is no hard cut, and it's unfair to hold anyone to the standard of "everything you said in the past is fair game"

There are better ways to judge.

Does the person have a history of going where the wind blows? If yes? Fuck that guy.

No? Okay. Is/has the person followed up their new found change of heart with actual action, or is it just bullshit? Just bullshit? Fuck that guy.

Yes? Alright, let's talk.

This makes sense.

 

[DaveC]

Oh, brother (beto, that is)

Also someone here mentioned a few months back that Beto was too supportive of the police (as i understood the post) in terms of being too lax on issues of police abusing people of color in stopping, and potentially arresting people of color. I find that repugnant and would only vote for him in the GE, against orange donnie. Perhaps he'd be willing to learn.

i think that was kamala harris we were discussing (if i'm remembering correctly) who had a fairly problematic record as the district attorney in san francisco. the biggest issues with beto from what i can tell are his awful voting record in the house, his eagerness to get in bed with fossil fuel companies, and his refusal to actually commit to any defined policy positions. haven't heard anything about him being really pro-police, though if anyone has more info about that i'd like to read it.

In case someone didn't catch a lot of your posts, or as a new lurker interested in politic just intermittently reading posts here as they try this thread out ; seeing your "fuck x candidate" i don't think they'd automatically assume that immediately.

sure, but tbh i'm not too concerned about some hypothetical occasional lurker misreading my posts because of a lack of context. i'll always explain myself if anyone wants to ask me about any post i make but if they don't then i see no reason to worry about that.

 

[dazzledbylight]

got it

I do remember the discussion on kamala h. But pretty sure someone also mentioned beto once.

Well, eh, on his fossil fuel companies bubby bubbyness.

It was about 2+ weeks ago that I heard ( via public radio ) that scientists were warning LBJ in the effing mid 1960's (the 1960's!!!) that if we kept up like we were Climate Change was going to be a problem!

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

FOX news logic = being a white supremacist is ok, as long as you don't commit mass murder.

https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status/1106544880753541120

 

[womanfish]

Trying to catch some Beto coverage as I admit I don't know much detail on him. From what i've seen so far... He seems to use a lot of words to say very little if anything at all.

I know its early and not everyone has to have all of their plans laid out in detail, but for example, when asked about Medicare for all and how to implement it and what sort of time frame, his answer was along the lines of - It's a big undertaking and can't be implemented by just one side, all Americans need to join together and work and unite to bring needed change that they want... blah blah blah..

concerning

 

[anitram]

Trying to catch some Beto coverage as I admit I don't know much detail on him. From what i've seen so far... He seems to use a lot of words to say very little if anything at all.

I know its early and not everyone has to have all of their plans laid out in detail, but for example, when asked about Medicare for all and how to implement it and what sort of time frame, his answer was along the lines of - It's a big undertaking and can't be implemented by just one side, all Americans need to join together and work and unite to bring needed change that they want... blah blah blah..

concerning

I heard somebody on TV refer to him as a “human Urban Outfitters t-shirt” and that sums it up perfectly.

 

[trojanchick99]

Despicable.

[TWEET]1106582640461787137[/TWEET]

I can't wait for the resolution denouncing white supremacy.

 

[namkcuR]

Trump has vetoed the bill blocking emergency powers.

Fully expected, but no less angering.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

Biden isn't exactly remorseful or embarrassed about all of his past votes, in which he was basically on the wrongside of every issue. He sucks shit, and supporting him at this stage of the primary is proof positive you just want a less rude president.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

The Democrats punting an entire generation on the left is so frustrating. Bernie Sanders is 77 years old, just opened a shower door on his own face, and is a grumpy curmudgeon, and yet he is the only one I can morally throw my support behind because the rest of the Democrats love capitalism.

 

[Irvine511]

It really is helpful to go into 2020 once again thinking that there’s no real difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

 

[BEAL]

Well, slightly less rude

 

[anitram]

The Democrats punting an entire generation on the left is so frustrating. Bernie Sanders is 77 years old, just opened a shower door on his own face, and is a grumpy curmudgeon, and yet he is the only one I can morally throw my support behind because the rest of the Democrats love capitalism.

You do realize that some of us genuinely don't see capitalism as some sort of inherent evil? Unbridled, unregulated capitalism has the potential to be terrible and oppressive but to flat out deny that the progress in terms of scientific discovery, medicine, technology, standard of living has been made possible in the West precisely because of a combination of capitalism and democracy is pretty myopic.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

What she said

 

[Jerry Dunk]

You do realize that some of us genuinely don't see capitalism as some sort of inherent evil? Unbridled, unregulated capitalism has the potential to be terrible and oppressive but to flat out deny that the progress in terms of scientific discovery, medicine, technology, standard of living has been made possible in the West precisely because of a combination of capitalism and democracy is pretty myopic.

I have seen it said that socialists have a poor grasp of reality. I think that those who believe a billionaire is coming, one who will finally rescue capitalism from those inconvenient jerks who gave it a bad name, and will finally direct the chase for profit in the moral direction it deserves ... they are the ones living in a fantasy land.

Capitalism is, at this point, the mechanism for a select few to accumulate as much as they possibly can before climate change change renders the current state of order so irreconcilable that anarchy reigns and the economic system collapses. They'll make their theoretical fortresses into actual fortresses soon enough.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

It really is helpful to go into 2020 once again thinking that there’s no real difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

Donald Trump is worse than Joe Biden.

But if you can't imagine a better candidate than Joe Biden, who loves credit card companies bankrupting the poor, especially poor people of color, who loves laws designed specifically to incarcerate minorities on shaky legal grounds, who loves war across the globe, especially war that kills Muslims, who loves discrediting rape victims when politically convenient to seem like the reasonable Democrats, and who loves insulting every person under the age of 35 for being lazy and entitled ... then I must confess I find your political viewpoints very worthy of being dismissed from the outset.

Biden literally pined THIS WEEK for September 2001 and how united the country was, and how bad it is that he's criticized for being friendly with Republicans now. Do I have to illustrate how fucked up that sentiment is, especially in light of Christchurch? This fucker wants to go back to a time when we were united around the common cause of killing Muslims. Fuck Joe Biden forever. I don't measure my candidates over whether or not they clear the fucking Donald Trump bar.

 

[Irvine511]

Right. I totally can’t imagine a better candidate than Joe Biden. That’s exactly what I said.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

Right. I totally can’t imagine a better candidate than Joe Biden. That’s exactly what I said.

What the fuck is your point? That young people should shut the fuck up and take whatever candidate Nancy Pelosi tells us is good for us?

 

[Irvine511]

What the fuck is your point? That young people should shut the fuck up and take whatever candidate Nancy Pelosi tells us is good for us?

It’s really not productive discussing things with Born Agains of any stripe.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

I am fucking enraged by what is happening in the world right now. Maybe you are too, I hope you are. I think you are a good person, so I would like to believe so. But your political ambition certainly makes me feel you are not. And that saddens me, but also stokes my rage. If you can't find it in you to seek more in what we need right now, I don't know what will. And I fear that before I ever get a satisfactory answer from you, I'll be offline bankrupting myself trying to defend my family from the horrors to come when ecological disaster allows fascism to dictate the course of the next generation.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

You get angry at me for "comparing" Biden to Trump but then compare me to a Trump supporter. Incredible.

 

[Jerry Dunk]

It’s really not productive discussing things with Born Agains of any stripe.

"There are fine people on both sides."

 

[Irvine511]

You get angry at me for "comparing" Biden to Trump but then compare me to a Trump supporter. Incredible.

Where did I do any such thing?

 

[Jerry Dunk]

Where did I do any such thing?

In context, what is your comment about "Born Agains" supposed to mean if not supposed to mean that those on the left who think Biden is not good enough are as irrational as the Jesus Freaks who align with Trump?

 

[Irvine511]

In context, what is your comment about "Born Agains" supposed to mean if not supposed to mean that those on the left who think Biden is not good enough are as irrational as the Jesus Freaks who align with Trump?

You are positively Born Again about “socialism” — whatever that actually means — and your manichean worldview is difficult to engage with.

I admire your passion and anger, I do. And we agree more than we don’t. I am horrified by Trump But I don’t know where to take any such discussion because of this scorched earth posting style.

 

[DaveC]

i've missed this

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I have seen it said that socialists have a poor grasp of reality. I think that those who believe a billionaire is coming, one who will finally rescue capitalism from those inconvenient jerks who gave it a bad name, and will finally direct the chase for profit in the moral direction it deserves ... they are the ones living in a fantasy land.

Maybe this was on purpose or maybe you’re firing shots in my general direction without knowing I’m standing right here, but I would suppose that this is in reference to my commentary regarding Elon Musk vs Boeing and Lockheed Martin way back when.

To which case, (1) you’re wrong, and (2) you’re grossly misrepresenting the point that was being made.

I don’t subscribe to a single ideology, nor would I say I have one. I subscribe to checks and balances, and to a reaction-based government. Times are dynamic, so I don’t understand why our politics shouldn’t be.

There are positives and negatives to all forms of governments. There remains something to be said about “opportunity” in a capitalist system. Competition in capitalism does drive growth.

Socialism has the capability to lift the minimum quality of life. Socialism has the ability to create equality.

Capitalism encourages greed, oppression, and inequality.

Socialism fails to incentivize productivity and growth, and leads to bloated bureaucracy.

And on and on and on. Right now, we as a nation are being oppressed and abused by a system that allows our livelihood and health to be capitalized on. It’s morally wrong. We need a socialized system. We need to react.

We need to close the poverty gap, through some means or another. Perhaps basic income. Perhaps dramatically increasing minimum wage.

That doesn’t mean capitalism is inherently bad. We are just festering in a capitalist dump that has sat on its fat ass for so long, gotten so bloated, and now it can’t get up and evolve. We need to always be evolving.

A lot of superiority and inferiority in the US has come about from capitalism. We don’t need to BE capitalists and we don’t need to BE socialists. We need to evolve and make smart decisions in response to deficiencies in our society.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I am fucking enraged by what is happening in the world right now. Maybe you are too, I hope you are. I think you are a good person, so I would like to believe so. But your political ambition certainly makes me feel you are not.

We’re all a bunch of desktop warriors. I’ve met him. He’s a good person. You guys play for the same team in the grand scheme of things, we should all be more constructive. Too much vitriol

 

[LuckyNumber7]

i've missed this

I missed u