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Old 10-20-2017, 06:53 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Iggy Fizz View Post
wow, you must sleep well knowing you have all the answers.


Knowing that third party voters put Trump in office is hardly having all the answers.
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:19 PM   #107
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plenty of people who voted for Trump did so for very valid reasons, even if those of you who frequent this echo chamber will never acknowledge that.




Besides being a vote against Clinton, can you explain just one valid reason?
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:49 PM   #108
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evangelical/fundie white women + rural, uneducated white women
my aunt fits this description exactly, very wealthy, born-again Christian, husband a pentecostal pastor at one time, all about appearances - incredibly fake beautiful/glamorous, but ugly as hell inside and a complete and utter bitch to people her whole life - she told me she was a very strong supporter of "President Trump" and i have had nothing to do with her since - the hypocrisy is astounding - we are from a family of immigrants, but i guess as her side of the family are White European immigrants she doesn't give a shit or attempt to relate or understand - it's sickening

eta - i doubt she submitted to her husband as she is queen of their household and completely rules the roost - he is a meek and mild-mannered man and worships the ground she walks on, and she wasn't raised in a gun toting environment - she's just a rich, evangelical Republican of the very worst kind, with no scruples and anti-everything she can't see in her own fucking mirror - a lot of them are probably like that
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Old 10-20-2017, 07:58 PM   #109
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Besides being a vote against Clinton, can you explain just one valid reason?
i don't think it's correct to say with such certainty that there was no valid reason whatsoever for anyone to vote for any particular candidate in a free and fair election.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:12 PM   #110
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i don't think it's correct to say with such certainty that there was no valid reason whatsoever for anyone to vote for any particular candidate in a free and fair election.


I haven’t said that, I’m just asking for an example.

Isn’t that fair to do so in a free and fair forum?
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:23 PM   #111
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of course, as far as i'm concerned you can ask anything here as long as you're willing to have an open mind in regards to the answers you get.

i've just seen it said here so many times that there was absolutely no legitimate reason whatsoever for anyone to vote for trump (or even any third party candidate) and that everyone who did so is morally bankrupt, as if there wasn't only two legitimate candidates to choose from. it's getting tiresome.

but i know you didn't say any of that. i thought you were going down this road with your line of questioning and if i jumped the gun, my bad.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:47 PM   #112
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I personally have no problem with the people who voted for third party candidates. My biggest issue when it comes to some third party supporters is that I sometimes feel like they don't really stop to think about all the other things that would need to change in order to make third parties more viable options. Just going down and putting your favorite third party candidate's name on the ballot and leaving it at that isn't going to be enough to suddenly make third parties a thing, and change the system.

(And I'm speaking in general terms here with the above statement, by the way. That's not directed at any third party supporters in this particular forum.)

But even taking that into account, at least the third party candidates in this last election, and in most elections in general, have had some level of experience (or a desire to learn and gain experience), and things of that sort, to where, had a miracle happened and one of them had won, I would've been okay with that. At least the people who voted for them were still voting for people who actually had some proper understanding of and respect for the job they were running for. I can't take issue with that.

With Trump, however, I truly cannot fathom how anyone thought he was a good candidate for them even if they had valid stances on the issues. Okay, they want better economic policies. I can totally sympathize with that. What I don't get, though, is how the hell they thought Trump, of all the potential options available to them, was going to be the one to make that happen. Okay, they want a better handle on the immigration issue. They seriously believed Trump was capable and smart enough to handle that issue?

That's the part that continues to mystify me. With all of Trump's chaotic blunder, blatant, proud ignorance of anything resembling policy and how the government works, crippling narcissism (a guy that self-absorbed is never going to give a shit about anyone else), and so on, what on earth about any of that made people look at him and go, "Yep, he's somebody I trust to run our country and help us with our problems."?
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:50 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Iggy Fizz View Post
plenty of people who voted for Trump did so for very valid reasons, even if those of you who frequent this echo chamber will never acknowledge that.

the real problem is the people who continue their willful blindness to the shitstorm that this administration has turned out to be.

but I do encourage people to perhaps consider a potential positive outcome. the Repub party is being forced to change because of the current and building attack from Trump's junkyard dogs. That's not a bad thing if it gets us closer to multi-party system, or gets the GOP to move closer to the center. Surely, the Dems moving even further left is not a good thing.
I agree with the sentiment that there were valid reasons why people thought they should vote Republican, or to not vote for Hillary that weren't related to sexism.

Where we part is the idea that there was a valid reason to vote for Donald Trump

The warning signs of, as you put it yourself, the shitstorm weren't just there, they were glowing like the fire of a thousand suns.

Every reason behind this administration being a shitstorm was clear as day during the campaign. Everything... Russia, sexual assault and harassment, shady dealings in his past, abnormal behavior, the inability to stay on track, the tendency to lash out, the casual and sometimes blatant racism. ALL OF IT WAS THERE.

I've voted Republican more than I've voted Democrat. My ideal candidate has always been a wealthy non politician who flip flops between Democratic and Republican - Mike Bloomberg.

Donald Trump is a disgrace to this nation, and only someone who was wilfully blind to these facts wouldn't have noticed how disgraceful he was and is during the campaign.

There was no good reason to vote for this man. None.
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Old 10-20-2017, 09:00 PM   #114
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my aunt fits this description exactly, very wealthy, born-again Christian, husband a pentecostal pastor at one time, all about appearances - incredibly fake beautiful/glamorous, but ugly as hell inside and a complete and utter bitch to people her whole life - she told me she was a very strong supporter of "President Trump" and i have had nothing to do with her since - the hypocrisy is astounding - we are from a family of immigrants, but i guess as her side of the family are White European immigrants she doesn't give a shit or attempt to relate or understand - it's sickening

eta - i doubt she submitted to her husband as she is queen of their household and completely rules the roost - he is a meek and mild-mannered man and worships the ground she walks on, and she wasn't raised in a gun toting environment - she's just a rich, evangelical Republican of the very worst kind, with no scruples and anti-everything she can't see in her own fucking mirror - a lot of them are probably like that
Having a decent relationship with your immediate relatives can be a challenge sometimes....most of us have been there. My own experience is that it's usually worth the effort in the end, especially if the split is just because of politics.

But again, not always easy as that.
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Old 10-20-2017, 09:41 PM   #115
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My pressing issue at the moment

How do i get another date to share with FYM????
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Old 10-20-2017, 09:49 PM   #116
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My pressing issue at the moment

How do i get another date to share with FYM????
There's an incredibly intelligent surfer activist you could ask.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:20 AM   #117
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My pressing issue at the moment

How do i get another date to share with FYM????


Idea for a socially catastrophic but wallet packing app...

Tinder, but photos are tinted red or blue.
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:11 AM   #118
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of course, as far as i'm concerned you can ask anything here as long as you're willing to have an open mind in regards to the answers you get.

i've just seen it said here so many times that there was absolutely no legitimate reason whatsoever for anyone to vote for trump (or even any third party candidate) and that everyone who did so is morally bankrupt, as if there wasn't only two legitimate candidates to choose from. it's getting tiresome.

but i know you didn't say any of that. i thought you were going down this road with your line of questioning and if i jumped the gun, my bad.
Call me tainted by history, but yes, there are politicians/political parties for which there is no legitimate reason to give them their vote, whatsoever. Voting third party or write-in I have some level of sympathy for, thinking that they had the best of intentions, yet were incredibly naive.

The idea of a better Republican party being formed from the rubble after Trump is out of the office is lovely, weren't it for the very real and devastating consequences for so many people not only in the US, but also worldwide.

It's amazing to see how General Kelly has fallen entirely in line . Apparently taking cues from Trump, he is now going after Representative Wilson spreading easily refutable lies about her for her daring to critizise the leader publically:

Quote:
White House Chief of Staff John Kelly lied on Thursday when he falsely claimed that Rep. Frederica Wilson, D-Fla., had loudly boasted about obtaining money for an FBI building in Miami during a dedication ceremony he attended in 2015.

As my colleague Shaun King writes, that Kelly said he was enraged by Wilson’s remarks as she made them...
What she in fact did:

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Instead, she gave credit to politicians of both parties and went on to acknowledge the heroism of the agents who were killed in a shootout with two bank robbers. “Today, it is our patriotic duty to lift up Special Agent Benjamin Grogan and Special Agent Jerry Dove from the street in South Florida, and place their names and pictures high, where the world will know that we are proud of their sacrifice, their sacrifice for our nation,” Wilson said.

She also asked all of those in law enforcement and first responders present at the ceremony to stand for a round of applause. “Stand up now, so that we can applaud you and what you do,” Wilson said. “Stand up, we are proud of you, we’re proud of your courage. Thank you.”
So in effect, he lies about her character in order to silence her, by which he himself shows utter disrespect for the two officers killed. Collateral damage I guess. But he doesn't stop there:

Quote:
Speaking in the White House briefing room a day earlier, Kelly made his false claim as part of an attack on Wilson’s character, after a broader lament about what he described as a collapse in moral values and insufficient respect for the military from American civilians.

Watch: Kelly laments how Gold Star families are no longer considered sacred after summer presidential conventions

“When I was a kid growing up, a lot of things were sacred in our country,” Kelly said...
To summarize: He laments that the sacredness of "Gold Star families" has gone out the window, seemingly forgetting that it was Trump himself who shattered this sacredness single-handedly. (Sentiments like that generally send me back to my first sentence in this post.)

https://theintercept.com/2017/10/20/...ilson-reality/
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Old 10-21-2017, 11:42 AM   #119
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Call me tainted by history, but yes, there are politicians/political parties for which there is no legitimate reason to give them their vote, whatsoever. Voting third party or write-in I have some level of sympathy for, thinking that they had the best of intentions, yet were incredibly naive.
in a multi party system yes, this could be true. but in a two party system to say that everyone who voted opposite from you had no legitimate reason (moral, political, practical, whatever) to do so when there were only two options with any chance of winning is straight up jacobinism.


note that i'm only talking about mainstream parties here, not joe running for president under the marxist-leninist-khmer my little pony child enslavement party.
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Old 10-21-2017, 03:05 PM   #120
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https://www.salon.com/2017/10/20/tru...itary-service/

Any guesses to the point of this?
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