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Old 10-20-2017, 11:07 AM   #91
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I think it’s more basic than that.

All the “moral values” talk is a smokescreen, and they know that.
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Old 10-20-2017, 11:13 AM   #92
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So I went on a date with a lady who voted for Trump. She was a very nice person, super sweet. Single mother, manager at her workplace, and living in a nice house in North County / San Diego. So not trailer trash

Her father was in the military, and since that field leans heavily GOP, I think that is what influenced her voting history. She gave no impression of anti feminist, racism, or in favor of the big bad Wall Street.

When I asked why she would vote for someone like Trump, her only answer was "How could you vote for that monster Hillary? Really, HILLARY???"

Clinton has been demonized so much by the GOP that to their base she is literally the anti-christ. She even went as far to say she thought Trump was doing an OK job (this was back in June/July).

I believe it falls under tribalism, and demonizing the other side. Otherwise, I have no idea.
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:32 PM   #93
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My Date with a Trump Supporter
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Old 10-20-2017, 12:50 PM   #94
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We had chips and salsa, some beer, and politely went on our way. I am not going to hate someone for who they voted for, but I'm definitely not going to pursue a relationship with someone with so much of a different view/perspective
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:18 PM   #95
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I think it’s more basic than that.

All the “moral values” talk is a smokescreen, and they know that.
Yeah, that's fair.

It makes me think of the story I read coming out of somewhere in either Virginia or North Carolina in 2008, when somebody canvassing their neighbourhood on behalf of the Obama campaign knocked on the door and your stereotypical white guy with an NRA sticker on the mailbox came out. The canvasser asked him if he had thought about who he was voting for and the guy said something to the effect of "I guess I'm voting for the N-word." I wonder what happened to that guy.
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:18 PM   #96
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I think something like 53% of white women voted for him (so gross and disappointing)

I'd be interested in knowing what the % of evangelical/fundie white women + rural, uneducated white women was within that 53%. My guess is a large bulk. These are women who either believe it is their Godly duty to follow their "headship" (husband) or just defer to their gun totin' racist man because they were raised in that environment.
Can confirm. My mom's told me about how she works with a lot of women who voted for Trump for the very reasons you note. She's got one co-worker who has even admitted as much, saying that her husband and son tell her that Fox News is the only real news channel out there and she listens to them because "they know best" and stuff like that. Many of my female relatives tend to think similarly. They're the sort who tend to do everything with their husbands, and don't really seem to have much of a life of their own.

I also agree that the extreme hatred for and willingness to believe literally any horrible things said about Hillary, no matter how untrue they are, played a big role, unfortunately. People still believe she would've been worse than what we have now. There's no penetrating that mindset.

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So I went on a date with a lady who voted for Trump. She was a very nice person, super sweet. Single mother, manager at her workplace, and living in a nice house in North County / San Diego. So not trailer trash
Aw, hey, let's not toss all trailer park people into the same lot.
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:29 PM   #97
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BEAL and The Girl From The North Country.
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Old 10-20-2017, 01:53 PM   #98
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There’s just a huge portion of this population that can’t think. They’ve never opened an economics book, they know nothing of what’s happening outside side of their own borders, and they know nothing of other religions(in fact they know little of their own). So painting a black and white world and denying nuance brings them comfort, for anything else would be uncomfortable. These people are in the Republican Party and Democratic Party, they only care about the D or the R.

So you have a bunch of party over fact zombies, you have the most demonized woman in the US, and this particular loudmouth talks like they do. They could have ran Hitler and most of these folks would have still voted for him.

None of the other stuff matters. It was a technical win, there’s no message here.

People didn’t want to think, so now we’re stuck with this shit stain on our country and will have to find a way to fight the irreconcilable actions of this ego.
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:16 PM   #99
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Yeah, that's fair.



It makes me think of the story I read coming out of somewhere in either Virginia or North Carolina in 2008, when somebody canvassing their neighbourhood on behalf of the Obama campaign knocked on the door and your stereotypical white guy with an NRA sticker on the mailbox came out. The canvasser asked him if he had thought about who he was voting for and the guy said something to the effect of "I guess I'm voting for the N-word." I wonder what happened to that guy.



I know several people who have said “my racist grandparents voted for Obama twice.”

Some of it was Obama’s own magic, I think that was a lot of 2008. I think in 2012 they successfully turned Romney into the guy who fired your dad.

2016 ... who can say? I think Trump felt fresh and exciting and different to the two most status quo people ever (Jeb and HRC), and that plus some Russian propaganda was enough for him to lose by 3m votes.
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Old 10-20-2017, 04:26 PM   #100
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I just finished a book called 'Why Buddhism is True. The Science and Philosophy of Meditation and Enlightenment'

And the author talks about how tribalism is one of the biggest threats to humanity. How we are so driven by our feelings, and our feelings are linked back to the very beginning of a species and Natural Selection. Social Media and Apps are designed to tap into these subconscious wiring to hook us even more (and you could say that about any great marketing campaign).

Even something like Climate Change is done in by our tribalism. If you're a Republican, you're less likely to believe it because you don't trust science.

It's a great read, and something that I've been dabbling in for the past year (vipassana meditation). The author makes the statement that if more and more people could take the time to meditate, it may lead to less and less combativeness against each other.

Anyway, just a random book drop.
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Old 10-20-2017, 04:53 PM   #101
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There’s just a huge portion of this population that can’t think. They’ve never opened an economics book, they know nothing of what’s happening outside side of their own borders, and they know nothing of other religions(in fact they know little of their own).
Yep. Which turns attention to primary and secondary education in parts of the US.

How do you come out of 13 or so years of education but still not know how to think? And that's not just a US problem to be fair.

I firmly believe your basic critical thinking skills should be taught at high school. I learnt them at first year university. Philosophy 105. Best learnings I ever did. All 15 and 16 year olds should study it.
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Old 10-20-2017, 05:24 PM   #102
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But the sexual assault, multiple wives -‘d children, the rape accusations, the fat shaming, the daughter-lust, the measuring of a woman’s value in terms of her fuckability — how did white women explain this to themselves?
This is a fundamental question that needs to be answered. We know people often vote against their own best interests out of ignorance to what their best interests are. But in this case the danger to that particular demographic was so transparent as to be totally baffling in why they would have voted Trump.

To add to others' anecdotes: the only woman I know to have voted for Trump is my partner's aunt. Her reasoning (if you want to call it that) was "we already had one guy waving his dick around in office (i.e. Bill Clinton), so what's another?" I still don't know what the hell that is supposed to mean.
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Old 10-20-2017, 05:30 PM   #103
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This is a fundamental question that needs to be answered. We know people often vote against their own best interests out of ignorance to what their best interests are. But in this case the danger to that particular demographic was so transparent as to be totally baffling in why they would have voted Trump.

To add to others' anecdotes: the only woman I know to have voted for Trump is my partner's aunt. Her reasoning (if you want to call it that) was "we already had one guy waving his dick around in office (i.e. Bill Clinton), so what's another?" I still don't know what the hell that is supposed to mean.

i'm sure there are myriad ways of looking at this, but i came across this not long after the election, and thought it was interesting. it's kind of the Tony Soprano theory.

the gist:

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Male dominance actually requires a pretty delicate balance, Glick said. If men want to maintain the control over women they’ve enjoyed for thousands of years, and continue their species, and satisfy their desires for heterosexual love and companionship, they can’t just use brute force. They need women to actually like them and not resent their dominance.

And so a compromise emerged — or at least a “protection racket,” as Glick calls it, like when the Mafioso tells the businessman he’d hate to see his nice shop burn down, so why don’t they make a deal.

The basic agreement is that as long as women cater to men’s needs, men will protect and cherish women in return. If women have few good options for independent success, this is a pretty good deal — which explains why in more overtly sexist societies where women have fewer opportunities, cross-national studies show that women endorse benevolent sexism at even higher rates than men do.

This may also help explain why Trump maintained high levels of support among white women voters who don’t have a college degree — a group Trump won 62 percent to 34, and a group whose career opportunities are probably more limited. Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton totally reversed 2012’s partisan gender gap among college-educated white women. (A demographic Clinton won by 51 to 45 percent, and Romney won 52 to 46 against Obama.)

But the most powerful gendered element of Trump’s campaign may actually lie in his fear-mongering.

“Trump's strategy was to ramp up anxiety about a dark, dangerous world,” Glick said. “When women are under threat, their benevolent sexism scores go up.”

Specifically, he said, showing women survey data about men’s hostile sexism makes women more likely to endorse benevolent sexism out of psychological self-defense. It may be ironic to turn to men for protection from male hostility, but it’s how the cycle works.

This also helps explain why so many women hold sexist biases against women, Glick said. If women themselves enforce gender norms and punish deviants, it reinforces the social order that guarantees them protection. And it separates them from the “bad” women who are deemed unworthy of that protection.

But that protection can still come with a cost, Glick said — which is also where sexist stereotypes about men factor in. The idea that men have to be providers and protectors, Glick said, goes hand in hand with the “boys will be boys” attitude that’s often used to excuse men’s bad behavior.

“Men are bad but bold. That’s the stereotype,” Glick said. “He’s not a very good protector if he can't beat up on other men.”

Glick said that Trump’s more positive masculine traits — boldness, change, willingness to defy tradition — may be seen as inextricably linked with his more negative ones, like his boorishness and cruelty. Trump may not be a nice guy, the thinking goes, and we may not like some of the things he says. But that just comes with the territory if you want a strong male leader.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/...m-misogyny-won
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Old 10-20-2017, 06:42 PM   #104
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If the goal is to prevent him from entering the White House, there was a best way to do that. It also would have sent a message that racism and sexual assault are, actually, bad things and should be the defining characteristics of the POTUS.

I know many Republicans — the country club/chamber of commerce type — who voted for HRC.

I also know many dipshits who felt that voting Johnson or Stein was somehow a noble act because they wanted to protest the two party system.

Because the two parties are exactly the same. Aren’t they.

We all see that now. Totally the same. The two parties. Can’t tell a difference.
wow, you must sleep well knowing you have all the answers.
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Old 10-20-2017, 06:49 PM   #105
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Trump is a shit stain on the entire world.

Those who voted for him deserve no better. The rest of us, however, have to carry this fetid stench for who knows how long. We are all worse for having to live through this.
plenty of people who voted for Trump did so for very valid reasons, even if those of you who frequent this echo chamber will never acknowledge that.

the real problem is the people who continue their willful blindness to the shitstorm that this administration has turned out to be.

but I do encourage people to perhaps consider a potential positive outcome. the Repub party is being forced to change because of the current and building attack from Trump's junkyard dogs. That's not a bad thing if it gets us closer to multi-party system, or gets the GOP to move closer to the center. Surely, the Dems moving even further left is not a good thing.
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