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Old 10-22-2017, 12:36 AM   #136
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Also, it really seem like pro-active smokescreen stories are on a sudden increase. Something may be coming.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:43 AM   #137
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US Politics IV

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Sure. But don't forget, in this age of digital media and gaming and hollywood and reality tv, the presence an continuation of a narrative is really appealing to people.



Voting for something because it's interesting, like not being able to look away at the scene of a crash, is a thing. People would have voted for him cause it was exciting to see where this crazy thing ended.



Not everybody. And not rational people. But that's the thing about democracy. Every person has one equal vote. Rational or not.



I agree. A lot of people wanted to put their hand on the hot stove.

Except that all votes arent equal in the US — rural votes are more heavily weighted than urban votes due to the electoral college and the Senate.

I’m not giving a blanket condemnation of all third party votes at all times and forever. But at a moment when we had a choice between a competent and experienced public servant and a certifiable madman, they chose either the stoner or the idiot physician planted by Putin? I don’t care if you live in California, or Alabama, and you think your vote didn’t matter. You still failed to do the one thing you could do to stop this from happening. And every blue vote in a red state at least adds to the popular vote total and becomes a weapon of the resistance.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:46 AM   #138
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Also, it really seem like pro-active smokescreen stories are on a sudden increase. Something may be coming.


Like this JFK thing?

So, I don’t work in politics, but I know people who do. It’s been told to me (drunkenly, late at night) by people who may know these things that the Trumps will all wind up in jail.

Take that for what you will.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:04 AM   #139
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Like this JFK thing?
The JFK thing.
Reports that retired air force pilots are being re-drafted.
General Kelly going AWOL from honesty, decency, sanity.
More US bombers buzzing NK.

There were a few more I've seen in the last few days. Just makes me wonder.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:06 AM   #140
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But at a moment when we had a choice between a competent and experienced public servant and a certifiable madman, they chose either the stoner or the idiot physician planted by Putin? I don’t care if you live in California, or Alabama, and you think your vote didn’t matter. You still failed to do the one thing you could do to stop this from happening. And every blue vote in a red state at least adds to the popular vote total and becomes a weapon of the resistance.
Fuck. See, you live there. I don't. And this shit is scary enough at the bottom of NZ. I'm sorry if I came off as a bit flippant.

Your point is completely right, in my opinion. But, it comes back to democracy. Can a democracy really work if not all voters are aware of, or capable of being aware of, or even interested in being aware of, the salient facts?

I really don't know.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:19 AM   #141
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Fuck. See, you live there. I don't. And this shit is scary enough at the bottom of NZ. I'm sorry if I came off as a bit flippant.



Your point is completely right, in my opinion. But, it comes back to democracy. Can a democracy really work if not all voters are aware of, or capable of being aware of, or even interested in being aware of, the salient facts?



I really don't know.


It’s really a scary question. I think we’ve seen that Russia was clearly feeding alternative facts to a credulous audience in an attempt to gaslight democracy itself. I don’t know if democracy can survive that. I’m still hopeful that 2016 was an aberration, and the total lack of any substantial legislation by Trump means that this won’t happen again. And I do think there are people around him who know their job is containment.

We’ll see. What do you do when no one agrees upon the same reality?
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:47 AM   #142
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The great irony here is the US (and the rest of the West, to be fair) have been encouraging and at times forcing democracy on countries who perhaps weren't equipped to deal with it.

Now the US, and you could argue Britain with Brexit, have come face to face with what democracy is like when the flow of information to the voters is corrupted.

Is this what democracy as an idea felt like in those other countries when NZ and American and British troops forced it on them?
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Old 10-22-2017, 02:34 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
So, I don’t work in politics, but I know people who do. It’s been told to me (drunkenly, late at night) by people who may know these things that the Trumps will all wind up in jail.

Take that for what you will.
Boy, wouldn't that be the utmost irony, given all the "lock her up!" chanting we heard last year.

Seriously, though, I know we can't afford to rush any of these investigations into Trump and his family, of course, for obvious reasons, and I very much appreciate the time and effort and thoroughness being put into all of this. But if there is indeed any actual truth to what those people have told you, or whether the Trumps actually go to jail or are just forced to leave the White House...can it happen as soon as humanly possible?
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:51 AM   #144
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in a multi party system yes, this could be true. but in a two party system to say that everyone who voted opposite from you had no legitimate reason (moral, political, practical, whatever) to do so when there were only two options with any chance of winning is straight up jacobinism.


note that i'm only talking about mainstream parties here, not joe running for president under the marxist-leninist-khmer my little pony child enslavement party.
In the US election you could support the Republicans, without explicitly giving your vote to Trump.
In a two-party system it's a dilemma, but if one candidate is Trump there is one realistic choice to avoid evil, which is going for the other main candidate, and a less realistic choice of going for third-party or write-in.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:57 AM   #145
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In the US election you could support the Republicans, without explicitly giving your vote to Trump.
In a two-party system it's a dilemma, but if one candidate is Trump there is one realistic choice to avoid evil, which is going for the other main candidate, and a less realistic choice of going for third-party or write-in.
Yeah. Voters who had always been Republican, believed in Republican values, didn't want Trump as their candidate, who hated Clinton, were in a shit spot. They really were.

I'm sure a lot of them just presumed he would have to fit himself into the presidential cloak, so to speak, as opposed to making the cloak fit him.
I remember that day he sat beside Obama, looking a little shellshocked, talkign with contrition and humility. I thought, for a moment, the campaign had been more rhetoric than reality. And I bet a lot of Trump's voters thought that too.

Of course he's a complete fucking asshole. He hurts people, and enjoys it. And I'm sure people are regretting their vote - whether they'd admit that or not.

But I don't find it that difficult to understand them giving the vote in the first place.
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Old 10-22-2017, 09:42 AM   #146
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Any one see the report that a Snr admin official is advising pulling "assets" out of South Korea? Also military build up by the US in the area, the Reagan etc and finally this. I know it's unconfirmed but this is insane and terrifying..... https://twitter.com/WonkVJ/status/921859016883552256
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:13 PM   #147
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Has there been any military buildup in the area? I would think that'd make some news if we were moving battleships over
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:50 PM   #148
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Has there been any military buildup in the area? I would think that'd make some news if we were moving battleships over
Yes but it's not being reported on the MSM

https://www.stripes.com/news/uss-ron...rills-1.493680


https://thediplomat.com/2017/10/us-n...n-south-korea/
http://uk.businessinsider.com/us-mil...7-10?r=US&IR=T
The Roosvelt also on its way... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.d...ft-carrier/amp
Now there's talk of pulling out assets in SK and Trumps EO on Friday night calling for retired fighter pilots to get back into action!
http://alert5.com/2017/10/22/trump-s...etired-pilots/

This is madness.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:48 PM   #149
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Why wouldn’t the MSM cover this ?

You seem to be really worried about this. While I think some concern is warranted there’s just no way we do a preemptive strike.
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Old 10-22-2017, 03:36 PM   #150
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Why wouldn’t the MSM cover this ?

You seem to be really worried about this. While I think some concern is warranted there’s just no way we do a preemptive strike.
Better than rolling over and letting those communist shitheads strike first.
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