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Old 07-12-2017, 11:23 AM   #121
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For sure Watergate took longer but that's because we didn't have social media or the Internet back then.

I also do think that the country was not as fractured. Things really started devolving with Newt Gingrich around 1994 and have only gotten worse since. I don't think that George HW Bush, the elder Bush was any great statesman or President but I just don't believe that even under his administration the Republicans would have behave the way they do now. Back then we didn't have the insane Freedom Caucus types, the frothing-at-the-mouth fundie evangelicals who have so much power now. The country club Republican just wanted to make more money and stay rich, but they had some standards for behaviour and expectations of others. I don't see anybody of that sort left in the party these days. Mittens tried and they all hate him.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:45 PM   #122
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it is really dependent on what era you look at.

Politics in the infancy of our country, really up to the civil war, were nasty. The handbill press savaged people personally. Jefferson's opponents tried to like him to incest and zoophilia. There was no decency in politics. And then the nation literally split and killed each other.


It seemed post reconstruction came with an implied civility (with noted exceptions). The union had proven fragile, and while the representatives of the states would fight hard for what they wanted, there was an understanding of the power of rhetoric, along with an understanding that they understood the pressures of the job like no other group of people. There was fraternity in that, and the characteristics of man at that time...to operate with tact, decency, and honor bled into their political dealings. The job was not so looked down upon.


A couple of things happened to get us where we are today...the Vietnam War and the media showing us what was actually happening sewed the first seeds of discontent among the general populous. The government was lying to us? Golf of Tonkin? Maybe the yellow journalism of yesteryear was more common than we thought? Is the government manipulating the message in this new era with this new medium?

Watergate broke the hearts of the people. We disagreed...sometimes violently. But now our president and his men were just petty crooks? And for such little gain? What did they do for the good stuff? That was the end of the innocence for those who still felt Vietnam was a necessary war to fight communism. Joseph McCarthy had been dismissed as a crackpot after his message became more and more crazy...even those who thought he was, at his core, right, just wrote him off as a loon. But now, we have the Vietnam War, Uncle Walter telling mom and dad that Vietman really was bad, and now our President is acting like a thug?


Carter had no chance. Reagan did serve one important role...talking real, real smooth and making those who wanted something to believe in have something to believe in. The switch of the southern Dem to the republican party is almost complete at this point, and the Democratic party becomes the party of civil rights, unions, and social programs. The right allies with the former southern Dems, and squeezes the last drops out of the cold war for the military industrial complex. We are regime building in central America, selling arms and maybe drugs to find covert operations (depends on whether you believe the Dark Alliance stories or not). This comes crashing down with some embarrassing scandals, but the Republicans have the weight with holding the former southern Dem, the conservative "Goldwater" republicans, barons of business, and now the working poor evangelical through the Moral Majority and Ralph Reed's entry into the world of US politics. But it was too much. Too many tents on the Republicans side, and something was bound to give...

Still, senators acted with some air of decency. But the Dems struck back with a centrist, a southerner who remained a Dem and could still carry that region in confusion while being on the good side of race relations. Clinton took the gooey center that was becoming less enamored with the evangelical driving the Republican bus. After 12 years of unchecked power in the executive office, the Clinton win shook the Reps up. They had dabbled with nasty play with Lee Atwater and the "Willie Horton" ads, but ultimately, Dukakis beat himself by climbing on a tank and essentially stopping his campaign with a big lead down the stretch. Now, the Republicans were ready to start firing the big guns. And that, rightly, started with the Contract with America and Newt Gingrich. Ralph Reed and the Religious Right got the evangelicals in line. And it became a game of "if you say this is a scandal enough, people will believe it is a scandal". Whitewater, Whitewater, Whitewater. Guy commits suicide...no, Foster was murdered. This coincided with the rise of the Right Wing Radio Host now that syndication was so much easier. The fringes could own the airwaves. Rush could hint that the CLintons were stone cold killers and people bought it. And out of a special prosecutor, we get Kenneth Starr, who found nothing about Whitewater, but got handed something so far out of the scope of the reason for his appointment, but because the special prosecutor had wide latitude, he used the Monica trap to catch the President lying about the answer to a question that NEVER should have been asked. That was not part of Whitewater. It was not important to the American people...It was a "GOTCHA", because they knew the answer, and got Bill to lie about infidelity, an impeachable offense.

That is when the world of politics really turned ugly. The Senate still had some decency, but the slide has been precipitous, with McCain having to bow to the loon side of the party with Palin, Michele Bachmann and her husband's Gay Cure, and so on. When a political figure actually started talking about Obama's birth certificate, that was the palest of the pale. But at least that was mostly TV wingnuts looking for attention, not actual politicians. Just some total loons.

Oh, wait...one of those TV loons pushing the narrative of Obama's "fake" birth certificate is our President.

And we lose...
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:34 PM   #123
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In case you were wondering, the Steele dossier mentions a helpful meeting in June of 2016
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:46 PM   #124
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Trump Snr had no idea of all these people or meetings..... Oooops!

https://twitter.com/CNNSitRoom/statu...48325427089409
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Old 07-12-2017, 05:50 PM   #125
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And there you go...

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/885251664713834498

Incredible.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:07 PM   #126
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Remember during the campaign when Putin's fluffer constantly attacked trade with China?

Now he's bragging about how they're buying our beef.





Except it was Obama that set the deal in place.

Today Breitbart is going bezerk because word is the GOP isn't repealing Obamacare. Trump will soon take credit for saving everyone's insurance.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:35 PM   #127
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Kid Rock is running for the Senate.

Personally I'm holding out for Fred Durst in 2020.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:44 PM   #128
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I read that there was some committee or something looking into the feasibility or something of The Rock running for president.

Fuck this bullshit. You wanna get into politics and make a difference? Good for you! Run for city council or mayor.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:20 PM   #129
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#BrahmaBull2020
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:14 PM   #130
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during the campaign, trump insisted that if americans voted for clinton they'd be stuck with a criminal for a president who would be under investigation from day one.

so they voted for clinton and it turns out trump was right.
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:40 PM   #131
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anitram

Newt Gingrich in the mid-ninties (contract w America" engineered the use by Republicans of much more incendiary language to describe The Democrats such as "sick" "bizzaire" .
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:47 PM   #132
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Kid Rock is running for the Senate.

Personally I'm holding out for Fred Durst in 2020.
I just want Henry Rollins to run for some kind of public position
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:13 PM   #133
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David Frum is awful.
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Old 07-13-2017, 07:55 AM   #134
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I just want Henry Rollins to run for some kind of public position

Pretty sure he'd be pro-gun and pro-LGBT and then everyone's heads would explode. It would be better than what we've got, at least.
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:55 PM   #135
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David Frum is awful.


Which means that individual tweet is wrong?
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