US Politics II

[Moonlit_Angel]

So...we're gonna go back to war with North Korea aren't we? Kinda feels like the build up to Iraq with the news stories coming out weekly about advances in weapons they are making.

Part of me wonders if other countries are trying their best to troll/ruin Trump's golf vacation? Cause a stir during an off week cause you know it'll irritate the fuck out of him

Certainly feels that way, yeah. Gotta love how Trump keeps tweeting out classified information, too, especially after railing against Hillary for her e-mails. Can somebody please take his damn Twitter account away from him already? I really don't understand how his handlers are still allowing him to spout off on there. They've taken it away from him for a period of time before, surely they can do it again here, right?

Also, from a few pages back, I echo the thanks to Axver for the backstory on Turnbull and the Australian politics of the refugee/immigrant situation. Yeah, Trump came off god-awful in that phone conversation, but I wasn't all that enamored with Turnbull, either, so it's good to get a better understanding of the issues around crazy discussion.

 

[DaveC]

if NK has genuinely managed to miniaturize a reliable device into a warhead that can fit on an ICBM (and that they can produce in numbers), they've accomplished an astounding feat of engineering. that would pretty much put them past the "red line" of finally being able to at least attempt to carry out all the heretofore-whackadoo threats lil' kim has been spouting and would start to push my opinion towards taking some sort of definitive action to end this song and dance.

that being said, i am EXTREMELY doubtful that this is true. like i said, it would be a historically impressive accomplishment for NK's scientists. i know this is from an american intelligence source rather than the usual north korean mouthpiece, but given the CIA's track record when it comes to intel regarding foreign weapons of mass destruction i think a healthy dose of skepticism is in order.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Maybe it's true that they have the capability to put warheads in ICBMs. Maybe it's a bunch of crap.

Either way it's comforting to know we have an efficient, rational administration in place to make sure that things don't spiral out of control.

 

[BEAL]

Agree. While I'm not on the side (mainly the Trump effect) of calling FAKE NEWS to everything that comes out (or to reports that I don't like), but this feels way too similar to Iraq buildup. Even the MSM were happy to put out any sort of news that made Iraq seem like they were ready to destroy the world.

I would like to think they have learned their lesson from Iraq, but doesn't seem like it. Every week we get another report about NK doing this, doing that...they can bomb Chicago....their subs are acting suspicious...

On the other side though, if they do have this technology then something has to be done. Due diligence is needed, but will we get that out of our leadership?

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Also, considering how much Trump likes to brag about how great the economy's doing (forgetting that much of that is carryover from the Obama administration), would the GOP really want to risk putting us into a war that would likely have a negative impact on our still-stabilizing economy in some form or another? Especially considering the economy is the big thing voters care about, and we've got elections coming next year? I'd like to think they wouldn't be that stupid, but, well...*Gestures to the White House*

Provided cooler heads actually prevailed in this situation, what would be the best case scenario for dealing with North Korea, or at least taking out Kim Jong-Un?

 

[BEAL]

Maybe it's true that they have the capability to put warheads in ICBMs. Maybe it's a bunch of crap.

Either way it's comforting to know we have an efficient, rational administration in place to make sure that things don't spiral out of control.

And just as you post this, our Best Leader responds on Twitter about fire and fury like the world has never seen.

Does he not see how he and Kim are the same person???? At least when it comes to their public statements?

We got ourselves a nuclear pissing match!

 

[TheFox]

And I've been called crazy for saying this is all about to kick off. Well, it is.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Like I said, please, for the love of god, somebody take his Twitter account away from him. Have a handler who can boil his inane ramblings down to something more coherent and not so grandiose.

(Ideally, I'd prefer the GOP just kick him out of office right now altogether, but fat chance of that happening anytime soon.)

It's moments like this that make me so angry at the people who voted for him. They may not have imagined a specific situation like this unfolding, but Christ, how the hell did any of them at any point honestly think he would be even remotely stable when it comes to handling a crisis, be it domestic or foreign? Talk about not thinking long-term.

 

[namkcuR]

And just as you post this, our Best Leader responds on Twitter about fire and fury like the world has never seen.

Does he not see how he and Kim are the same person???? At least when it comes to their public statements?

We got ourselves a nuclear pissing match!

EDIT: Nvm, misunderstood.

 

[BEAL]

I don't see it...

Kim constantly makes threats that NK will destroy the USA. Or any other apocalyptic statement on how they'll destroy anyone who gets in their way. (and to be fair, so all other dictators).

Bush had his Shock and Awe

Trump now has his fire and fury

With Bush, you got the feeling that he was trying to sound imposing without losing some class of politics.

We don't get that with Trump

 

[BEAL]

And I've been called crazy for saying this is all about to kick off. Well, it is.

I don't think it will. I think NK is taking the piss out of Trump on his vacation. And Trump cannot keep his mouth shut.

 

[namkcuR]

Kim constantly makes threats that NK will destroy the USA. Or any other apocalyptic statement on how they'll destroy anyone who gets in their way. (and to be fair, so all other dictators).

Bush had his Shock and Awe

Trump now has his fire and fury

With Bush, you got the feeling that he was trying to sound imposing without losing some class of politics.

We don't get that with Trump

No, I get it. I thought that you were saying that Trump said that on twitter, and it's not on twitter. That's why I said 'I don't see it'. He said it on tv.

 

[BEAL]

yeah, saw you edited.....after i post

and I made the assumption it was on twitter too....not sure which avenue is worse haha.

Every week it's something!

 

[Wide Awake n AZ]

I don't think it will. I think NK is taking the piss out of Trump on his vacation. And Trump cannot keep his mouth shut.

in the past, it has been a shakedown for "humanitarian aid".

This feels different, but there is not consensus in even our paranoid (US) intelligence community that this is a thing yet. This is Trump taking partial information and running with it to create a public discussion on something that should not be a public discussion.

That said...we can't really afford to be wrong here. It takes a second to say goodbye, or something like that...

 

[TheFox]

I'm sure China would be happy with US nukes on NK iradiating their country too.

 

[TheFox]

in the past, it has been a shakedown for "humanitarian aid".

This feels different, but there is not consensus in even our paranoid (US) intelligence community that this is a thing yet. This is Trump taking partial information and running with it to create a public discussion on something that should not be a public discussion.

That said...we can't really afford to be wrong here. It takes a second to say goodbye, or something like that...

Problem is, Trumps crazy rants ratchets up NKs fear and paranoia. It only accelerates things and could even cause a NK pre emptive attack. It's the very last thing Trump should be doing. One things certain, NK isn't stopping it's nuclear program.
At best any war over NK would be contained on the Korean peninsula (and that would be devastating enough). At worst it spreads beyond.

 

[RoKKeR]

The POTUS statement is legitimately terrifying. I feel sick.

 

[namkcuR]

I don't think it will. I think NK is taking the piss out of Trump on his vacation. And Trump cannot keep his mouth shut.

But it's our own intelligence saying this, and they wouldn't just take NK's word on it. And I know, our intelligence was wrong about Iraq. I get it. But this seems more legit to me. Besides, Bush and his people were looking for a war in Iraq. They wanted it. I don't think Trump came in looking for a war with North Korea, he just can't help responding this way when he's being threatened.

In any case...I think that it should be made clear to everyone in the country that going to war with North Korea is probably also going to war with China, and that that is a very scary prospect.

At the moment, I lean towards taking the NK threat seriously, but I don't want war. I feel like the play is a diplomatic one wherein we essentially go to China and say, 'ok, what do you want, in exchange for making NK sit down and shut up?'.

But then I don't know that much about this stuff.

 

[Wide Awake n AZ]

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/deadkennedys/gonewithmywind.html

A 1980's lyric with a new sense of relation to current events

 

[BoMac]

I know that this is tin foil hat stuff, but what if Trump himself (or someone close to him) is leaking this NK info? Now we have Trump with his "fire and fury" quote. It's a great distraction from the Russia investigation.

 

[TheFox]

I know that this is tin foil hat stuff, but what if Trump himself (or someone close to him) is leaking this NK info? Now we have Trump with his "fire and fury" quote. It's a great distraction from the Russia investigation.

We can hope. Orchestrated by Putin who has influence over NK.

 

[corianderstem]

Don't worry guys, this is just his plan to replace Obamacare without having to find a replacement.

 

[namkcuR]

Don't worry guys, this is just his plan to replace Obamacare without having to find a replacement.

You mean by starting WW3 so a global nuclear conflict occurs leaving what's left of the American populace to live a post-apocalyptic nuclear winter such that healthcare won't matter anymore?

 

[Irvine511]

I know that this is tin foil hat stuff, but what if Trump himself (or someone close to him) is leaking this NK info? Now we have Trump with his "fire and fury" quote. It's a great distraction from the Russia investigation.

Nah. He just really enjoyed GOT last Sunday. He wants to show the world we have the best dragons.

 

[corianderstem]

You mean by starting WW3 so a global nuclear conflict occurs leaving what's left of the American populace to live a post-apocalyptic nuclear winter such that healthcare won't matter anymore?

Sure.

 

[zuma]

I feel there are some really knowledgeable people on this thread. This whole NK thing is scary a hell. What do people think is the best case scenario to deal with NK? What do we want Trumpy and Co to do?

I think the option is either keep trying diplomacy but clearly it has gotten us nowhere. Obama’s foreign policy didn't stop their program and if they have in fact miniaturized their nuclear war heads, nothing was accomplished at all. Doesn't look like China is willing to step in either and with Trump I doubt very much a solution can be found that involves China. Eventually NK will be able to hit the US with nuclear warheads for sure. Will they? Who knows, but another cold war scenario with two nut jobs isn't exactly a 'best case'.

So that leaves war. Whether they can hit the US or not I feel like we're getting to the point of something needs to be done. But there is a chance of nuclear weapons going off either in NK, countries like Japan or potentially the US. An attack would also likely mean Russia and China getting involved. Assuming NK doesn't end up in a nuclear winter, there will be a massive humanitarian crisis on our hands.

I think this is what freaks me out the most, I just don't see any way for this to end that is not awful. People who think nothing is going to come of it, what do you think will happen long-term?

 

[Bluer White]

Your typical nouveau riche - tacky, ugly and insecure.

Our two main choices last November

 

[namkcuR]

Our two main choices last November

I am so tired of people equating the two and pretending as if we were screwed either way, as if one isn't dramatically, sickeningly worse than the other.

 

[TheFox]

NK threatening Guam oh for fuck sake. This is fucked up!

 

[corianderstem]

Eh, that won't work as a threat, since Trump probably doesn't know Guam is a US territory.