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Old 02-28-2014, 03:48 PM   #76
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it stresses the importance of retirement planning, and it also stresses the importance of a government program like social security that create a floor of living standards for the elderly.

most people don't have the time or knowledge to effectively financially plan for themselves, let alone manage a stock portfolio over 30 years. it's also very difficult to get people to save for the future when the present seems so pressing. social security does both for you, and doesn't risk destroying your savings should another 2008 happen again.
Social security may have problems in the future, so it is best to not completely rely on it.

The more I learn about personal finance, the more I think it is necessary for people to be educated about it. We put on emphasis on learning and being better at sex, cooking, even makeup, but why not personal finance if that is more important than those examples (no one can live without money)? A lot of people's financial problems come from poor financial planning that can easily be learned with simple courses or just reading books by Suze Orman or Dave Ramsey. Its true that it is not easy saving up or creating emergency funds (I'm on a tight budget too, so I wish dearly that I could save more), but it can still be done, however small.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:31 PM   #77
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it stresses the importance of retirement planning, and it also stresses the importance of a government program like social security that create a floor of living standards for the elderly.
It also, and due to demographics will increasingly, transfer income from young families raising kids and paying mortgages to retired grandpa and grandma on the golf courses of Arizona. Think people might better prepare for retirement if they had 12.4% (soc sec tax rate) of their income back?
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most people don't have the time or knowledge to effectively financially plan for themselves, let alone manage a stock portfolio over 30 years.
You might be a liberal if... you think people are too lazy/stupid to attend to their own lives. Plan their retirement, buy health insurance, secure a picture ID to vote, or get through life without a government program to lead you by the hand.

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it's also very difficult to get people to save for the future when the present seems so pressing.
5 years after the recession and we're saying this?

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social security does both for you, and doesn't risk destroying your savings should another 2008 happen again.
2008 will look like a $20 bounced check compared to the collapse of the U.S. economy.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:48 PM   #78
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It also, and due to demographics will increasingly, transfer income from young families raising kids and paying mortgages to retired grandpa and grandma on the golf courses of Arizona. Think people might better prepare for retirement if they had 12.4% (soc sec tax rate) of their income back?
i'm glad you're a big fan of immigration as well! the best way to be able to pay for an aging society is a constant influx of young, hungry immigrants ready to work and have families. hopefully, you can convince some in your party not to fear people who might be different from them and embrace immigration reform.

as for the 12.4%, no, i think that money would be spent. it's very hard to get people to plan for retirement without someone doing it for them. even your college educated, white collar workers benefit tremendously from their employer's creating 401(k)'s where the money is taken out of the paycheck before you ever see it. but large swathes of our workers aren't offered retirement plans, so it makes sense that there's a basic floor in place so that the elderly don't die in poverty like they did before FDR and then later the Great Society.

it might sound nice, but really, no on actually wants to return to the past except for people who don't know anything about it.



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You might be a liberal if... you think people are too lazy/stupid to attend to their own lives. Plan their retirement, buy health insurance, secure a picture ID to vote, or get through life without a government program to lead you by the hand.

it's less about being lazy or stupid and more about not having opportunity or time or the actual knowledge to manage an investment portfolio. we all know that the elderly in particular are targeted by money scams, so it's nice that there's some protection so that you don't lose your money even if you lose your marbles. it's less about leading you by the and and more about making sure that, no matter what, you have a floor. it will be there no matter what else happens to you.

it's basic compassion, but i understand that's in short supply for some Americans.


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5 years after the recession and we're saying this?

everyone has always said this all the time and always will. unless you are a couple starting to make upwards of, say, $125,000 or more, you likely still live virtually paycheck to paycheck. it's very difficult to effectively plan for the future without a plan in place. what SS does is prevent widespread senior poverty.


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2008 will look like a $20 bounced check compared to the collapse of the U.S. economy.
i'm all for raising the retirement age, but this kind of scare mongering is just silly.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:50 PM   #79
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You might be a liberal if... you think people are too lazy/stupid to attend to their own lives. Plan their retirement, buy health insurance, secure a picture ID to vote, or get through life without a government program to lead you by the hand.
You might be a conservative if you think the only explanation for anything negative is laziness or stupidity. And maybe not, say, being really busy because you're working multiple jobs for shit pay.
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:16 PM   #80
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i'm glad you're a big fan of immigration as well! the best way to be able to pay for an aging society is a constant influx of young, hungry immigrants ready to work and have families. hopefully, you can convince some in your party not to fear people who might be different from them and embrace immigration reform.
I'm very strongly pro-immigration, but it's impossible to permanently base funding entitlement programs off of a steady stream of immigrants.
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:50 PM   #81
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I'm very strongly pro-immigration, but it's impossible to permanently base funding entitlement programs off of a steady stream of immigrants.

Agreed, but it sure helps keep the population younger than it would be.
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:12 PM   #82
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The math always catches up to a Ponzi scheme.
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:09 PM   #83
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I read that if we'd just raise the cap on the SS tax, it would comfortably solve the problem. Hell, it's so easy, you know it will never happen.

Mostly because Grover Norquist has half of American Government by the balls. Why? Because he can defeat those politicians in primaries and that's all the politicians care about - staying if office. And Norquist does it by working on behalf of the super rich, under the guise of keeping taxes low for everybody (that's the plausibly denied politics of it) and "small government". Yes, Norquist, hired by Ronald Reagan, the effective founder of modern Big Government conservatism. All the while continuing to keep millions upon millions of Americans voting against their own best interests, while using political ploys to frame everything as Us vs Them, Makers vs Takers and so on.
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:17 PM   #84
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Sorry, I just can't resist.

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The math always catches up to a Ponzi scheme.
If you can fund it (not that they are, but that they can), it's not a Ponzi scheme.

If you don't like it only because decades of cynical politics has somehow convinced you that it's a bad thing, then it's a "Ponzi Scheme". Although that makes no sense, but why would it need to make any sense?

It's nothing more than a 'good line' to use in a bullshit partisan argument. That's why the political hack that came up with it started using it in the place. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be a good barb.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:45 PM   #85
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Sorry, I just can't resist.



If you can fund it (not that they are, but that they can), it's not a Ponzi scheme.

If you don't like it only because decades of cynical politics has somehow convinced you that it's a bad thing, then it's a "Ponzi Scheme". Although that makes no sense, but why would it need to make any sense?

It's nothing more than a 'good line' to use in a bullshit partisan argument. That's why the political hack that came up with it started using it in the place. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be a good barb.
It spends more than it receives in revenue.
There is only an IOU in the Social Security "lockbox."
The unfunded liability of Soc sec is $10 trillion.

Run a pension plan like that in the private sector and you'd be in jail.

And Europe faces the same demographic problem of funding its Welfare state.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:48 PM   #86
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I read that if we'd just raise the cap on the SS tax, it would comfortably solve the problem. Hell, it's so easy, you know it will never happen.
Of course, higher and higher taxes. It's so easy.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:31 PM   #87
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Of course, higher and higher taxes. It's so easy.

Present taxes are at historic lows.

It's difficult to take seriously a party that spent 8 years starting wars and gutting revenues via tax breaks for the wealthy to then act as if they know anything about fiscal responsibility.

Let's talk about Obama's tumbling deficits and the Clinton surpluses and the 1990s tax rates.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:37 PM   #88
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It spends more than it receives in revenue.
There is only an IOU in the Social Security "lockbox."
The unfunded liability of Soc sec is $10 trillion.

Run a pension plan like that in the private sector and you'd be in jail.

And Europe faces the same demographic problem of funding its Welfare state.
A lot of people spend more money than they make, are they Ponzi schemes too?

Clearly SS is unfunded that far out in the future, but it can always be funded. A Ponzi scheme is inherently unfunded because it's never designed to be funded.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:07 PM   #89
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Of course, higher and higher taxes. It's so easy.
We've had one federal tax increase in the last 20 years. And that just happened recently and it only affected people making nearly half-a-million dollars a year. We can survive another increase on the SS tax cap.

Such an increase would only apply to people making well above 100K a year. And no, it's not fair that they'd have to pay more. But many kids born into poverty have almost no chance of ever getting out of it. It's possible, but it's extremely difficult and the odds are against it. Is that fair? No.

So, as I've heard my whole life, growing up in Red State America, surrounded by fiscal conservatives that believe in personal responsibility. "Life's not fair. Get over it."

I'm pretty much still a fiscal conservative in principle, I just can't ignore the realities. And I believe very strongly in Social Security as a necessity.

I also believe in paying that bill. How else would you do it?
Do you want to get rid of Social Security? Tell us how you'd fix the problem.
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Old 03-04-2014, 07:47 PM   #90
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We've had one federal tax increase in the last 20 years. And that just happened recently and it only affected people making nearly half-a-million dollars a year. We can survive another increase on the SS tax cap.

Such an increase would only apply to people making well above 100K a year. And no, it's not fair that they'd have to pay more. But many kids born into poverty have almost no chance of ever getting out of it. It's possible, but it's extremely difficult and the odds are against it. Is that fair? No.

So, as I've heard my whole life, growing up in Red State America, surrounded by fiscal conservatives that believe in personal responsibility. "Life's not fair. Get over it."

I'm pretty much still a fiscal conservative in principle, I just can't ignore the realities. And I believe very strongly in Social Security as a necessity.

I also believe in paying that bill. How else would you do it?
Do you want to get rid of Social Security? Tell us how you'd fix the problem.
Adjust the retirement age to account for the longer lifespan.

Allow an opt-out with proof of an individual retirement account.

Crackdown on Social Security Disability fraud. Even 60 Minutes took note of the enrollment explosion of the past 5 years.

That's only 3 things but it's three things more than this administration will do.
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