U S Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, shot at public appearance!! - Page 32 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-13-2011, 09:11 PM   #466
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Obama is a moderate, for my money. I wish he was much farther left on social issues.
I agree with you - a Public Option on HC would've been nice.
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:13 PM   #467
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I agree with you - a Public Option on HC would've been nice.
Hell, even a stronger push for lowering Medicare to age 55 would have been mildly progressive.


Obama is a moderate, but I knew that before I voted for him.
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:15 PM   #468
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Hell, even a stronger push for lowering Medicare to age 55 would have been mildly progressive.


Obama is a moderate, but I knew that before I voted for him.
I liked that idea too - we didn't go far enough and when the poll questioning isn't 'skewed' by verbiage - then a lot of Americans would've liked it too.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:53 PM   #469
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Obama is as middle of the road as they come. The guy is the radical equivalent of warm oatmeal.

The health care bill, although beneficial to those without insurance, was largely a dud compared to any kind of public option that would have bypassed the insurance industry (and their heavy corporate lobby in Washington).
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:16 AM   #470
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No. No, he is not. Not even close.

Angela
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Far left? No, not really.
In the wider world (international polical spectrum) I think he is considered center or center-right. Certainly not left or even far-left. There is no left in the political spectrum in the USA (compared to the international spectrum).
thanks for saving me the intitial trouble of countering that remark.

As I said before in some ways The USA 's politcs have gone so rightward from Reagan onward that what was considered leftist & liberal in the "The Sixties" and "70's" is now considered far left & leftist. ANd there definately were some far leftist(Communists, Stalinists, Troskyites) in the USA in the esp in the ?30's - 60's .

But PopM you are wrong about this (high-lighted) imo.There is the Democratic Socialists of America [or DSOC] organization. It's not being screamed about from rooftops but they're around. I find alot interesting and admirable in Swedish polices, in certain policies of Germany, France etc (not counting the more conservatives groups there).

And there are "The Greens" here, too, of whom I started hearing about arising in Europe back in the 80's.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:24 AM   #471
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Looks like I wasn't too far off, if you consider this site: US Presidential Election 2008


(And yes, this was during the 2008 election and does not say anything about the current situation, but still...)
Ah!
Thanks for bringing that back, PopM !

I did the questionaire and ened somewhere floating around in the ?mid-upper left of the green section.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:28 AM   #472
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Really? Do you think anyone would make a song about McCain's skin color? If two black people aren't offended then it's not racist?


indeed!
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:40 AM   #473
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I have a bunch more posts to answer but I need to cite/link sourcematerial for certain of them. hopefully over the weekend or early next week.


Hey, it's Chizip!
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:52 AM   #474
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But PopM you are wrong about this (high-lighted) imo.There is the Democratic Socialists of America [or DSOC] organization. It's not being screamed about from rooftops but they're around.
Oh, I'm sure there are some left (and far-left) people and organizations in the USA. But I don't see them in the political arena. They aren't in the Congress (of course not the organizations, with the 2 party system, but are there left people in the Congress?), they aren't visible when there are elections, etc. That's what I mean with there not being any left in the political spectrum of the USA. How influential are Brian Moore and Ralph Nader nowadays?
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:36 AM   #475
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Anyway Nader is arguably on the far right. He certainly enabled it, in a most delicious way.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:20 AM   #476
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Obama is as middle of the road as they come. The guy is the radical equivalent of warm oatmeal.
Yeah, I really have to question those that claim he's far left or "radical".

Do they just not ever question the talking heads?

Is their middle skewed that far to the right?

Will someone who believes this please explain? And I swear if you mention Ayers you automatically disqualify yourself as someone who falls into category #1.
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:23 PM   #477
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Isn't that the Congressman when running stated "I have a higher security clearance than the President" and also he was to hire Joyce Kaufmann as his Chief of Staff - radio shock jock that said "if ballots don't work, bullets will". However, she resigned shortly after West was elected.

Here are the links to reference the comments above.
Politifact Florida rated Alan West's comments as "pants on fire"
PolitiFact Florida | Allen West says he has "clearance that even the president of the United States cannot obtain"

Here's a link to Joyce Kaufmann and her incendiary comments -

Joyce Kaufman - Bullets Ballots | Palin Defense | Tea Party | Mediaite
Well the Allen West one is pretty lame since Geithner had similar problems and some unpaid tax if it's dealt with (as opposed to Wesley Snipes or Willie Nelson) then there shouldn't be a problem with electing him. I would also like to know if he was dodging taxes or he simply had errors on his return and owed back taxes because of it. In Canada they tolerate it more if you make a plan to pay it off. Also from talking to tax experts in the Canadian government they say that the IRS is even more stringent and will use liens a lot sooner than many other countries.

Joyce Kaufmann resigned so who cares. If Obama can get away with incendiary language then her quitting is plenty satisfying. In the end this Jared is a lunatic and barking on that subject is still pushing the template that Giffords died because of heated rhetoric rather than a heated maniac. We're only talking about it because that's what Democrats want to talk about.

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How does one judge one's instincts if you've never seen them act on them?
By looking at what they say, like wanting to shut down coal plants or to have a single payer healthcare system. I think Obama's Senate voting record was to the left of most Democrats. I'm sure Ron Paul wants a system that couldn't even happen in the U.S. but many Republicans won't go that far. Even Bush wanted to be more "compassionate" than many Republicans wanted because one of the reasons the Republicans won in the past decade was because they stole ground from some Democrats and moved to the left a little pissing off many in their bases who wanted more fiscal control. For politicians being elected is like getting a job and then having to satisfy different groups in compromise in order to keep your job. That's why politicians say lots of things to the electorate but once they get in power they want to protect their asses.

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Refering to a baby as an object isn't offensive to you? Really?
It's bad taste to me but isn't using a baby as an object for illegal immigration not treating the baby as an object? The problem with the term is that many people use it and even Democrats making fun of Conservatives who happened to be "anchor babies" in the past. I doubt we will see the end of that term. What would have to happen is some major outrage all over the media where the populace would have to be trained out of fear of being called racist or abusive to then get the message that the term "anchor babies" is wrong. It would probably be more offensive if it singled out a particular racial or cultural group. Because "anchor babies" can come from anywhere it's harder to bash people who say it. If they were called "wetbacks" like Mel Gibson said then there would be more outrage and people quitting or being fired.

Terms in Canada are even now being revised for public use:

YouTube - Dire Straits, Canada Bans Money for nothing

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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Really? Do you think anyone would make a song about McCain's skin color? If two black people aren't offended then it's not racist?

If a black talk show host commissioned a song called "Rush the drughead honky" it wouldn't be racist? I could probably think of two white people that wouldn't be offended.
You're still not getting it. The LA Times mentioned it and they were serious. Why don't you bash them? The song was making fun of them. That's the context. The Money for Nothing song is taken out of context in the same way you are. Even Time magazine had a title "Is Obama Black enough?".

Rush wants minorities to look at the GOP as a choice to get out of being defined in a victim category. If you define yourself as a victim it's hard to get motivation in a country where you're told you have to be white to get success. Of course that's wrong. That's Rush's philosophy and he's mentioned it many times over. That's why he gets someone like Snerdley to be considered "Black enough to criticize" precisely because early criticism of Obama's policies were considered latent racism.

The more you go on about this the more it looks like the criticism is true that Democrats want to detour the debate from policies to character assassination.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:56 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
Well the Allen West one is pretty lame since Geithner had similar problems and some unpaid tax if it's dealt with (as opposed to Wesley Snipes or Willie Nelson) then there shouldn't be a problem with electing him. I would also like to know if he was dodging taxes or he simply had errors on his return and owed back taxes because of it. In Canada they tolerate it more if you make a plan to pay it off. Also from talking to tax experts in the Canadian government they say that the IRS is even more stringent and will use liens a lot sooner than many other countries.


My reference to Congressman West (R) FL - was to make the connection between the radio shock job - Joyce Kaufmann and him. While she resigned as his Chief of Staff, she maintains her job as a drive time radio talk show host.
Many Americans of all political ilk have unpaid taxes - we just run through everyone and everything they touch with a fine-toothed comb. And rightly so - we need to know who we are electing to the job.


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If Obama can get away with incendiary language then her quitting is plenty satisfying.
With the comments that Ms Kaufmann made - which are incendiary - could you please post the source for the incendiary comments that Pres. Obama made?
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We're only talking about it because that's what Democrats want to talk about.
There's a lot of story here, and not just Democrats want to talk about it - a lot of different people want to learn how insanity/mental illness/ease of purchase of ammunition/so on and so forth, played a part in this.
And what we as people of the United States can do to make sure that it doesn't happen again.
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Old 01-14-2011, 02:45 PM   #479
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By looking at what they say, like wanting to shut down coal plants or to have a single payer healthcare system. I think Obama's Senate voting record was to the left of most Democrats. That's why politicians say lots of things to the electorate but once they get in power they want to protect their asses.
So which is it? You can tell by looking at what they say or they just say things to the electorate? You're constantly contradicting yourself.

The rest of your post is false.

You honestly don't know why you call Obama radical, do you? Just falling in step, once again.

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Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post

It's bad taste to me but isn't using a baby as an object for illegal immigration not treating the baby as an object? The problem with the term is that many people use it and even Democrats making fun of Conservatives who happened to be "anchor babies" in the past.

Because "anchor babies" can come from anywhere it's harder to bash people who say it.
Do you have a link to these Dems that have made fun of Anchor Babies?

How many Republicans have you seen use this term regarding Canadians?

And why was it used to describe Salma Hayek's baby by Fox News?





Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
You're still not getting it. The LA Times mentioned it and they were serious. Why don't you bash them? The song was making fun of them. That's the context.
The black writer from the LA Times was using a reference to an old 70's saying. Not in parody. Since Jay-Z uses the word nigger you would defend Rush if he made a parody about Obama using a Jay-Z song and calling Obama a 'nigger'?

Once again, why is Obama's skin color being referenced by RUSH?
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The more you go on about this the more it looks like the criticism is true that Democrats want to detour the debate from policies to character assassination.
Says the man that still uses Ayer's references and labels people communist and socialist as much as you can.

I've just found over the years that you are fairly detached and clueless about race issues, which is why you were able to post an extremely racist article before. Not because you're racist but because I think you're fairly sheltered and incapable of that sort of empathy. I think this is a problem with many. I think you have your flat out racists and then you have those that are unable to recognize it and allow it to exist, and that's still a big problem with the right in this country.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:38 PM   #480
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Absolutely despicable.

Worst Thing Said This Week: Rush Limbaugh Wins in This Category

Quote:
On his radio show, Limbaugh declared,

Quote:
"What Mr. Loughner knows is that he has the full support of a major political party in this country. He's sitting there in jail. He knows what's going on, he knows that...the Democrat party is attempting to find anybody but him to blame. He knows if he plays his cards right, he's just a victim....That smiling mug shot--this guy clearly understands he's getting all the attention and he understands he's got a political party doing everything it can, plus a local sheriff doing everything that they can to make sure he's not convicted of murder - but something lesser."
Limbaugh was suggesting--no, make that stating as a fact--that the Democrats want to help Jared Lee Loughner escape full justice for allegedly murdering six people (including a federal judge and a nine-year-old girl) and attempting to kill Giffords, a Democrat quite popular within her party. What could Limbaugh be thinking?

Then again, it's not truly a rational thought process that derives such a conclusion. Would he have his audience of ditto-heads believe that the leading Democrats who have visited Giffords in her hospital room -- Nancy Pelosi, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Kristen Gillibrand -- want to help the man who nearly killed their friend to get off easy? Limbaugh has no evidence to cite, because there is nothing to back up his ranting. This is craziness. Hateful craziness.

Does Limbaugh even believe this swill? He could be saying it merely to satisfy the red-meat yearnings of his followers. That would render him perhaps the biggest cynic on the American landscape. (For such care and feeding, Limbaugh earns at least $50 million a year.) Yet if he truly thinks that Pelosi is plotting to assist the assassin who put a bullet into the head of a friend, he is delusional.

There is no other explanation: panderer-for-profit or nutcase.
I realize this is not a civil way of describing someone. But there are moments when civility prevents us from serving and protecting the truth. Mendacity, ignorance, provocation -- sometimes these must be called out by name. Otherwise, those who would use or exploit such means to pervert the national discourse gain an advantage.

Obama is correct: To advance the national interest, Americans must mount rigorous debates in the best terms possible. But you cannot have an honest debate with a mud-thrower. (My father used to tell me, there's no fair fight with a skunk.) Those who purposefully undermine reasonable and necessary discourse do not deserve a pass in the name of civility. Limbaugh, as he so often has done, resorted to extreme rhetoric and a big lie in an attempt to undercut or destroy a political adversary. He made a dark week even darker.
(bold emphasis mine)

I wish he were a nutcase. I really do. It would make rationalizing his comments so much easier. But he's not. He's an opportunist, in it not for the sake of his country, but for the fattening of his wallet and his ego.

I can see absolutely no rational defense of his statement. This is the kind of extreme rhetoric we've been talking about, purpleoscar. This is the kind of deplorable misinformation and divisive propaganda that throws a wrench in your "he's a media watchdog" claim.
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