U S Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, shot at public appearance!! - Page 26 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-12-2011, 02:04 PM   #376
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,651
Local Time: 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
That's not what I was trying to say!

What I'm saying is that a mentally disturbed person doesn't need a gun to go out and do something terrible.

But you seemed to have been applying that guns laws wouldn't have changed anything, I'm saying they would have. More lives would have been saved.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:09 PM   #377
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,342
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Quote:
no, i didn't. it's the argument that's made all the time -- "people who want to kill will still find a way to kill."

maybe. but it will be an awful lot harder without a semiautomatic. i prefer my odds against a knife.
What I'm saying is that everytime a tragedy like this happens, its commited by people who were known to have issues, and nothing was done to help correct them. Because nothing really can be done. Because even when they pose great risk to violence, you can't force them against their will to get help.

Quote:
But you seemed to have been applying that guns laws wouldn't have changed anything, I'm saying they would have. More lives would have been saved.
Oh no, they certainly would have changed everything. In fact I believe I was the first to post a rant about how ass backwards the background check for buying firearms is, about 15 pages ago. Everyone was talking about Sarah Palin though so it went unnoticed.

EDIT: It was on page 14 in-between all the talk about Sarah Palin if you're interested.
__________________

__________________
The_Pac_Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:09 PM   #378
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 01:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Giffords is Jewish.

the mind boggles.
Yes. And the blood of a Christian child was spilled.

I truly hope she didn't actually know what she was saying.
__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:10 PM   #379
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
What I'm saying is that everytime a tragedy like this happens, its commited by people who were known to have issues, and nothing was done to help correct them. Because nothing really can be done. Because even when they pose great risk to violence, you can't force them against their will to get help.


we can prevent them from buying semiautomatics.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:12 PM   #380
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliEnvy View Post
I truly hope she didn't actually know what she was saying.

considering most of her communication is barely literate, i think you're hopes are correct.

but, really, someone should have known better.

though if you trip through the right wing blogs, they all think she looked positively presidential.

she's totally running. this makes Romney happy. and Obama.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:13 PM   #381
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,342
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Quote:
we can prevent them from buying semiautomatics.
So as long as they don't have access to guns, who the fuck cares what they do?
__________________
The_Pac_Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:38 PM   #382
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pac_Mule View Post
So as long as they don't have access to guns, who the fuck cares what they do?


no.

if they don't have access to guns, they'll do a fuck of a lot less.

dealing with the mentally ill is a whole other issue, but it seems as if restricting access to deadly weapons would be a fairly good place to start.

also, slashing mental health services because people think their taxes are too high or, worse, because mental health services are often provided by the hated, feared government, is probably not the best way to deal with the mentally ill.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:40 PM   #383
Refugee
 
The_Pac_Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,342
Local Time: 08:21 PM
Agreed.
__________________
The_Pac_Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 04:13 PM   #384
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,234
Local Time: 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar

The right-wing media is a watchdog on the left. I know you don't look at it that way but that is how we view ourselves.
I really don't see to many conservative news people projecting that mentality. Besides, you seem to be setting the conservative media up as an equal but opposite reaction to the liberal media. Wouldn't it be a more worthy goal to set up a media point of view that values objectivity and rigorous journalistic standards above all else, if those are the things you find lacking out there?

Quote:
Well you seem to be annoyed by angry discussion more than what is said but there are huge implications in saying that happiness is improved when envy is removed by making a country more equal in outcomes. I look at envy as a defilement and a personal problem that one has to get over. I wouldn't feel great in a country that tried to limit my reasonable rewards for reasonable effort and talent. I also think an important part of happiness is being able to be responsible for myself than trying to off load it as much as possible to bureaucrats (especially in creating boring equal outcomes). I agree with the video that much of the market is based on status but that is more a consumeristic point of view that we should criticize and a better way would be for people to get over their envy and start making personal goals that people strive for instead of comparing themselves to others based on what they can buy. Capitalism is about capital. If people compete on status they are likely not going to have any capital but lots of debt. There will always be inequality of outcomes even in Sweden so to me creating more opportunities is a more realistic goal and leave it up to people to learn from their own mistakes. People should only look to others for inspiration or lessons on what not to do. They should not look at other people as diminishing their own happiness because they have better results.
What? This long ramble of yours has absolutely nothing to do with what Jon Stewart said. Jon Stewart's comments were entirely apolitical. It does a great disservice to your argument when you go off on tangents like this, or simply assume you know what someone is going to say without even hearing it. There isn't one big "liberal agenda" that everyone who isn't conservative fits into. Everyone who isn't conservative isn't "the opposition."
__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 04:40 PM   #385
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
How would Jared Loughner have gotten a gun if he hadn't gone to a store and bought it? Everyone just goes "He'd obtain it illegally!" and just assume that makes sense.

When people talk about this, I feel like they're always thinking in terms of someone just driving down to "the hood" and buying a gun off some gangbanger, and it makes no sense to me that this just works with no great explanation.

Lax gun laws are a massive problem.
Illegally obtaining a gun means everything from buying it on the street, buying it off the books from a dealer, or buying one from a private individual and not reporting the sale in jursidictions that might require it.

Perhaps the easiest way to illegally obtain a gun is to steal one from a private home. This happens all of the time. Many people who own guns are still incredibly lax about storing them safely and securely

The point being, it is not hard to get a gun legally or illegally. But, the sticky part of the equation is the enforcement. We need so much more funding for enforcement of many things. I doubt (especially in this climate) that governments (state or federal) will allocate more money for enforcing gun laws, let alone enacting more gun laws.

So, we need to create a society where people who want to commit crimes like this have the opportunity to get help--voluntarily or involuntarily. This speaks to our need for more mental health funding and probably is some of the difference between the U.S., Canada and Europe in terms of violence.
__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 04:47 PM   #386
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 05:21 PM
I don't know if this has been posted yet,

but, contrary to earlier reports, he shot her in the front, (face) left side and the bullet exited the back of her head. through and through
__________________
deep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 05:21 PM   #387
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
purpleoscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,597
Local Time: 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
I really don't see to many conservative news people projecting that mentality. Besides, you seem to be setting the conservative media up as an equal but opposite reaction to the liberal media. Wouldn't it be a more worthy goal to set up a media point of view that values objectivity and rigorous journalistic standards above all else, if those are the things you find lacking out there?
I find that Fox News in the basic news does that but the conservative commentary is no different than editorial commentary in newspapers. I wouldn't treat the two the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
What? This long ramble of yours has absolutely nothing to do with what Jon Stewart said. Jon Stewart's comments were entirely apolitical. It does a great disservice to your argument when you go off on tangents like this, or simply assume you know what someone is going to say without even hearing it. There isn't one big "liberal agenda" that everyone who isn't conservative fits into. Everyone who isn't conservative isn't "the opposition."
BVS already corrected me on that. I was talking about the video I posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS
I would just like you to wake up to see it for what it is. I want you to be able to look at that Rush example you posted and understand that it's not just reaction. I know conservatives that still listen to Rush, but they understand what he is, you've haven't seemed to get there yet.

I don't agree with him in all areas but in enough areas to see how well he frames how liberals think and I feel it's more accurate than most shows or programs. I don't listen to only Rush Limbaugh. He's good for analyzing news stories and lurking for left-wing bias. If you want to understand where conservatives come from you have to go into books.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS
Well if you watched it you would understand Jon was talking about the political climate in general and not specifically about this event. Of course I agree with Jon, any sensible person should regardless of politics. Maybe you should try watching it again?
I don't have a problem with what he said other than his wish is only a wish. When we actually start seeing shows that have actual lively debate without games there will be camps for either side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS
But that video didn't show one thing to back up your ignorant comment. Not one.
That video talks about happiness being better with more equal outcome societies and included in the examples is Sweden. Then it says that there's no difference between equality happening naturally (my preference) versus distributing weath to achieve it. My criticism of it is accidentally posted on the post I made for Diemen because I thought he was talking about my video but he was talking about Jon Stewart. The Spirit Level is popular with leftists and is considered influential. If it's not for you, oh well....
__________________
purpleoscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 05:55 PM   #388
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,234
Local Time: 07:21 PM
This is not the liberal dream you're looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
BVS already corrected me on that. I was talking about the video I posted.

...

The Spirit Level is popular with leftists and is considered influential. If it's not for you, oh well....
I think you're reaching a bit far with this one. I suspect the number of liberals who are aware of and influenced by The Spirit Level is quite a bit smaller than the number of liberals you think are aware of it and influenced by it. Maybe some far leftists, but they're hardly in control of the "liberal agenda" as a whole. I think you could also find a large swath of self-professed liberals who don't identify with it either.
__________________
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 06:38 PM   #389
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,651
Local Time: 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
I don't agree with him in all areas but in enough areas to see how well he frames how liberals think and I feel it's more accurate than most shows or programs.
tried to frame Rush to be do not tell their audience how other groups think. What you're
Well that's the problem, don't let someone else tell you how other groups think. Find out for yourself. That's real education. News or watchdog goups or everything else you've describing is called propaganda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
That video talks about happiness being better with more equal outcome societies and included in the examples is Sweden.
Yeah, I watched the video, but it didn't talk about how the media is wanting to shape the U.S. That was your original statement. You've shown NOTHING to back that up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
The Spirit Level is popular with leftists and is considered influential. If it's not for you, oh well....
Did Rush tell you this? I can guarantee you the majority of people you label "leftist" have not even heard of the "Spirit Level".

This is exactly why so many question your grasp on reality.
__________________
BVS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 07:06 PM   #390
Refugee
 
AliEnvy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,320
Local Time: 01:21 AM
Obama's speech at the memorial service in Tucson will stream live at 8pm ET.

CBS News Live Video - CBS News
__________________

__________________
AliEnvy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
loughner note, rush limbaugh, sheriff dupnik

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com