U S Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, shot at public appearance!! - Page 25 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-12-2011, 01:13 PM   #361
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Do you believe that Americans are just innately more violent? Because, according to you, it has nothing got to do with the gun laws, so I'm just curious as to your perspective on why it is the average murder rate by shooting is much higher in the US than Europe.

The Psychogeography of Gun Violence - Richard Florida - National - The Atlantic

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It is the nature of the culture of honor itself and the way it acts on and through marginalized young males, just like Loughner. The culture of honor, as Nisbett describes it, sees violence as an "appropriate response to insults" and as "a means of self-protection."

Numerous media reports note that Loughner grew more obsessed with Congresswoman Giffords after he felt she did not give him a respectful answer to the question he asked her at an earlier forum. Then there are the results of the University of Oklahoma study which finds the culture of honor to be a particularly robust predictor of high school violence, especially among young males who have been marginalized, bullied, rejected, or faced other "honor threats." And, Nisbett's some two-decades-old warning that the culture of honor is not something that is necessarily geographically bounded but seems to spreading into broader aspects of young male working-class enclaves in both urban and rural communities is as prescient as it is chilling.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:17 PM   #362
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The right-wing media is a watchdog on the left. I know you don't look at it that way but that is how we view ourselves.
That's absurd. The right-wind media is there for two simple purposes:

1. Make money.
2. Support conservative politics by any means necessary.

And that's it. There's literally no other purpose to them. To dupe yourself into believing your right wing pundits are some kind of watchdog group bravely taking on the "mainstream establishment" is just that, duping yourself.

Is there a more blatant example of Fox News being full of shit than the Al-Waleed bin Talal incident? That's an example of pure propaganda and fear mongering. Do you need me to explain that whole thing to you?
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:32 PM   #363
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That's absurd. The right-wind media is there for two simple purposes:

1. Make money.


actually, i'd say just this simple purpose.

i'm paraphrasing conservative David Frum, but i believe he wrote: "we all thought that Fox News worked or us; in truth, we all work for Fox News."
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:35 PM   #364
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These maps make it pretty clear that increased gun safety regulations = fewer gun-related deaths.

Number of Deaths Due to Injury by Firearms per 100,000 Population, 2007

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comp...?ind=113&cat=2

States with assault weapons bans

Firearms and Children Legislation - Kaiser State Health Facts

States with safe gun storage requirements

Firearms and Children Legislation - Kaiser State Health Facts

States which require trigger locks on guns

Firearms and Children Legislation - Kaiser State Health Facts
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:44 PM   #365
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Rush is the one pointing out what the left won't.
Er, no.

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It's not bad but the narrative that strong speech has to be curtailed won't happen because political parties want to win and they have real disagreements. So to me it's basically irrelevant. It's always been heated but it appears more so because of easy access to it with 24 hour news and internet. One should take a break from it now and then but it's always going to be there. Governments always want to send a message to the public and the opposition wants to find holes in that message.
What exactly does any of this have to do with the video clip? There was nothing in there about curtailing strong speech-Jon may have said we should strive to be nicer to each other and maybe think a bit more about what we say, or be strong and passionate without having to be insulting, but that's more of a wish, a hope. It's hardly asking to curtail strong speech.

Yes, unfortunately, this sort of attitude will always exist, but that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt to try and at least temper it a little. Disagreement is a-ok, heck, it's welcomed-life would be boring if everyone agreed on everything. But it doesn't need to descend into mudslinging and insults and sweeping generalizations about an entire political mindset.

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Since anger comes from helplessness and obstacles to goals, any difference of policy will conjure negative emotions because most people have a functioning amygdala. It's possible to control reactions to it but the negative sensations will come when:

-policies you don't like and think are dangerous get passed
-you perceive your side gets mischaracterized
That's true of many things, yes, but there are moments where I'll disagree with a policy, but it's not really something to get angry over. Everyone has their emotional triggers, but there's also those issues where they go, "Meh" *Shrug*.

Angela
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:54 PM   #366
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Well if it's just opinions with no facts then I believe it should be ignored at the minimum.
I would just like you to wake up to see it for what it is. I want you to be able to look at that Rush example you posted and understand that it's not just reaction. I know conservatives that still listen to Rush, but they understand what he is, you've haven't seemed to get there yet.



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I did. The access to the invective can be too much and people should take a break now and then but as long as there are differences on what people believe makes a great country there will be anger and rhetoric. If you agree with Jon Stewart well that's great but the right is arguing with the others that overblew it (MSM).
Well if you watched it you would understand Jon was talking about the political climate in general and not specifically about this event. Of course I agree with Jon, any sensible person should regardless of politics. Maybe you should try watching it again?

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Well I posted that video to show exactly what I was talking about because you said I was misinformed. I don't think so.
But that video didn't show one thing to back up your ignorant comment. Not one.


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Banishing ignorance is important but the argument is about what we are ignorant about and the left and right don't agree on what is ignorance and what is a good fact. That's why there's debate.
Perfect example of why I said what I said. You don't respect education. You still treat fact like opinion. There is no "good fact" "bad fact", there's just fact. Now how you use the facts may be up for debate, but the facts are not. The sooner you understand this the better you'll be at this.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:54 PM   #367
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But what if we had the most strict gun laws possible, and he was unable to attain a gun? He could have just taken a kitchen knife and stabbed her outright. I'm not trying to make a point about guns. The point I'm trying to make is that even when someone, like Loughner, is known to have serious issues and threatening to others, you can't fucking do anything about it until they go out and do something terrible! I mean come on, everyone at the college he went to knew he was seriously fucked up, and they were scared of him. But they didn't tell the authorites (not that they could have done much), they just told him to leave, and become someone else's problem. In todays society you can't force a disturbed person into a mental institution, even if they really need it, until something tragic like this happens. Then it's too late for everyone. It just seems pretty backwards to me.

Some people are pressing for the death penalty, but I don't see that happening because of his mental state. They're probably just throw him in a mental ward the rest of his life, where he should have been in the first place.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:55 PM   #368
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i'm still trying to wrap my head around this "blood libel" on Sarah Palin.

TPM said it best: "Today has been set aside to honor the victims of the Tucson massacre. And Sarah Palin has apparently decided she's one of them."
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:57 PM   #369
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But what if we had the most strict gun laws possible, and he was unable to attain a gun? He could have just taken a kitchen knife and stabbed her outright.
i'm sure he would have been able to knife 19 other people to deal and kill 6 of them.

knives and guns are the same.



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In todays society you can't force a disturbed person into a mental institution, even if they really need it, until something tragic like this happens.

let's not cut funding for mental health services then?
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:57 PM   #370
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She's also apparently decided she's Jewish. Or just wanted to throw an anti-Semitic slur out there. Adding insult to injury on a few levels.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:58 PM   #371
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These maps make it pretty clear that increased gun safety regulations = fewer gun-related deaths.
You could also make the argument that there's more gun related deaths in cities and poor communities.

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i'm sure he would have been able to knife 19 other people to deal and kill 6 of them.

knives and guns are the same.
You missed my point.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:59 PM   #372
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But what if we had the most strict gun laws possible, and he was unable to attain a gun? He could have just taken a kitchen knife and stabbed her outright.
Do you honestly think he could have killed and injured that many people with one knife?
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:00 PM   #373
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That's not what I was trying to say!

What I'm saying is that a mentally disturbed person doesn't need a gun to go out and do something terrible.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:01 PM   #374
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You missed my point.


no, i didn't. it's the argument that's made all the time -- "people who want to kill will still find a way to kill."

maybe. but it will be an awful lot harder without a semiautomatic. i prefer my odds against a knife.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:03 PM   #375
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She's also apparently decided she's Jewish. Or just wanted to throw an anti-Semitic slur out there. Adding insult to injury on a few levels.


Giffords is Jewish.

the mind boggles.
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