U S Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, shot at public appearance!! - Page 21 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-11-2011, 03:38 PM   #301
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What I'm saying is that you can't tell politicians to cool it without telling Hollywood to as well.
while i agree that Sarah Palin blurs the lines, are you honestly going to sit there and pretend that there's no difference between a movie star and a politician?



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For those looking to identify outlets that can influence and aggravate potentially or already unstable people, violent forms of entertainment are a much greater factor that people in politics. Harris and Klebold were huge fans of Doom and similar games, referenced NBK (Natural Born Killers) as a code for their attack, etc.

what about the guns? are those part of the problem?
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:42 PM   #302
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what about the guns? are those part of the problem?
ya know... i actually am okay with people having the right to have firearms. people out in the woods, far away from towns... in the deserts in the southwest, especially near dangerous mexican border towns... i can completely understand why they would want to protect themselves.

so give them a fucking muzzle loading rifle and ban the rest of that shit. nobody needs a semi-automatic rifle to kill bambi.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:42 PM   #303
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i agree... but these are separate issues.

the rhetoric has gotten out of control. palin is a dipshit who was incredibly irresponsible in putting crosshairs on her images, and who probably thought for herself that she might even be responsible when this story broke as well, evidenced by her pulling those images off her sites.

the rhetoric does need to stop... but that should be a different thread, a different discussion. this was not some politically motivated tea party supporter, or some separatist militia member.

this was a complete, utter psychopath. a person who should have been institutionalized years ago. but here we are, trying to put blame on something. the blame is in the hands of the shooter. he's fucking nuts. it's not the music, it's not the movies, it's not the internet, and it's not sarah palin. it's that this guy was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. if he hadn't had a long standing grudge with giffords, it would have been someone else.

even if, in some way, rush limbaugh's rhetoric triggered something in this kid's brain to act... which i find to be ludicrous... but even if... if it wasn't rush, it would have been something else. because the guy's nutzo.

where we failed, in this case, was in his schooling... somewhere along the line teachers, administrators, somebody... should have taken the obvious warning signs and gotten this kid the help that he desperately needed. THAT is the issue here.

is the rhetoric on both sides of the aisle an issue? you're damn right it is. it's a huge one. it's why i hate both parties. but it shouldn't be THIS issue.


generally, i agree.

but, this was a profound teachable moment -- for both parties, but especially for the GOP who's political iconography is filled with guns and their speech which has become increasingly hysterical, as has been noted for years -- and it was a great moment for Sarah Palin to prove that she could be a leader. what did she do? she made herself the victim.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:43 PM   #304
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i agree... but these are separate issues.
Yes, agreed.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:44 PM   #305
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2861U2, have you read Dave Cullen's book Columbine? Fascinating (and yes, horrifying). It's very eye-opening as to the motives. Long story short - surprise, surprise - the media took ideas and ran with them, even though they turned out to be untrue.

One of my (left wing, for the record) friends on Facebook made a similar comment about comparing the shitstorm against Palin to the panic/outrage about rap and heavy metal music in the past.

It gave me pause; it was a good point. But the more I thought about it, the more secure I felt in believing that it's not a bad thing to want to hold politicians to a higher standard than we would the entertainment industry. They're trying to lead.
I haven't read it. Maybe I'll look into it.

I agree with the last point, and all of us can obviously acknowledge that politicians function in the real world while Hollywood functions mostly in the fictional realm. I don't know. I just think the culture of violence in America is enhanced, if by anything, more by absurdly violent songs, movies and games (none of which I even find remotely entertaining or enjoyable, but maybe that's just me) than by real people who, we hopefully all agree, truly don't mean for any actual harm. When one sad event crosses the line between the two, and other psychotic individuals witness the notoriety that comes with it, you can't unring the bell. The Virginia Tech shooter referenced Harris and Klebold as an influence. Harris and Klebold referenced McVeigh as an influence. McVeigh referenced Waco...

Of course, all this can be solved by responsible parents, peers, pastors, teachers, and others investing in the lives of these individuals and making sure they can't get a gun so easily, regardless of the motive.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:47 PM   #306
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the rhetoric does need to stop... but that should be a different thread, a different discussion. this was not some politically motivated tea party supporter, or some separatist militia member.

this was a complete, utter psychopath. a person who should have been institutionalized years ago. but here we are, trying to put blame on something. the blame is in the hands of the shooter. he's fucking nuts. it's not the music, it's not the movies, it's not the internet, and it's not sarah palin. it's that this guy was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. if he hadn't had a long standing grudge with giffords, it would have been someone else.
.......
is the rhetoric on both sides of the aisle an issue? you're damn right it is. it's a huge one. it's why i hate both parties. but it shouldn't be THIS issue.
If one outcome of all this were to be that politicians toned down their attacks a bit, that would be a very good development. But trying to force that outcome by wielding this particular incident as a battering ram will only worsen the climate by giving people on both sides further reason to feel indignant.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:53 PM   #307
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Well, he sure looks mentally stable.
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Old 01-11-2011, 03:58 PM   #308
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The guy displays symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia and apparently has for some time now. His parents and anyone else who didn't do anything about that are more responsible than Sarah Palin could ever be. I'm not saying he couldn't form political thoughts but they were rambling, disjointed, incoherent, and all over the place-he was able to attend community college so clearly there was some level of functioning thought. I wasn't saying he was stupid, but clearly his mental illness went far beyond any rational political thoughts and motivations. When one of your classmates says that you're one of those guys who will be on the news one day after shooting up your class, well I think it's pretty clear what's going on.

I think he could have just as easily formed an obsession with an ultraconservative Republican. Maybe if he could rationally think it out she wasn't liberal enough for him. But that doesn't really matter.

It disgusts me that any of this gives SP and her followers any fodder for making her a victim. Ugh. I hate that the REAL victims are shoved aside by anyone in favor of that.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:06 PM   #309
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She wanted to be the first female MLB player


Arizona Daily Star

Aspiring politician Christina-Taylor Green was born in the midst of tragedy on Sept. 11, 2001, and died Saturday morning while trying to meet Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.

The strong-willed 9-year-old third-grader had gone to meet Giffords with a neighbor when she was shot. She died later at University Medical Center.

Her neighbor was shot four times and was recovering from surgery Saturday evening.

Christina-Taylor had just been elected to the student council at Mesa Verde Elementary School and had been interested in politics from a young age, her father, John Green, said Saturday night.

"She was a good speaker. I could have easily seen her as a politician," her father said.

The brown-eyed athletic girl had one sibling, an 11-year-old brother named Dallas, and the two loved to go swimming together.

She'd already told her parents she wanted to attend Penn State one day and have a career that involved helping those less fortunate than her.

She also loved animals and was a passionate dancer who loved ballet, hip-hop, jazz and gymnastics and was the only girl on her Canyon del Oro Little League baseball team, "The Pirates." She played second base.

Christina-Taylor came from a family of baseball players. Her grandfather, former major-league pitcher Dallas Green, was team manager for the Philadelphia Phillies when they won the World Series in 1980.

"She kept up with everyone, she was a strong girl, a very good athlete and a strong swimmer," said her mother, Roxanna Green. "She was interested in everything. She got a guitar for Christmas so her next thing was learning to play guitar."

Christina-Taylor also enjoyed singing in a church choir at St. Odilia's Catholic Church, where she had received her first Holy Communion in the spring.

"'Let the children come to me,' Jesus said (Matthew 19:14). Christina is with Him," Roman Catholic Diocese of Tucson Bishop Gerald F. Kicanas wrote in a letter to parishioners sent from Jordan, where he is attending a bishops' meeting.

Already aware of inequalities in the world around her, Christina-Taylor often repeated the same phrase to her mother: "We are so blessed. We have the best life."

Her birth date no doubt helped inspire Christina-Taylor's interest in politics, Roxanna Green said. She was one of 50 9/11 babies featured in a book called "Faces of Hope."

"She was born back east and Sept. 11 affected everyone there, and Christina-Taylor was always very aware of it. She was very patriotic and wearing red, white and blue was really special to her," her mother said.

"She was all about helping people, and being involved. It's so tragic. She went to learn today and then someone with so much hatred in their heart took the lives of innocent people."



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Old 01-11-2011, 04:09 PM   #310
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OH.. for god's sake.. here he goes.. yeah here's a man we should all listen to..

someone put him out of his misery..

Rush Limbaugh: Jared Loughner Has 'Full Support' Of Democratic Party
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:11 PM   #311
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ya know... i actually am okay with people having the right to have firearms. people out in the woods, far away from towns... in the deserts in the southwest, especially near dangerous mexican border towns... i can completely understand why they would want to protect themselves.

so give them a fucking muzzle loading rifle and ban the rest of that shit. nobody needs a semi-automatic rifle to kill bambi.
Here's another issue, that is only somewhat related to this story but needs to be addressed. Arizona suffers from some shitty laws. I didn't know this but callers into conservative talk shows yesterday were saying that you can carry(non-concealed) in Arizona almost anywhere, even bars unless you partake in alcohol... is this true?

This person fell through the cracks, he should have been blocked on two occasions; his drug charge and his mental issues. Both failed to surface when doing a background check. BIG PROBLEM.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:16 PM   #312
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People always say, "The bad guys will get guns anyway," and I just don't think that's true. I don't think Jared Loughner would have had a gun if they were banned.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:30 PM   #313
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OH.. for god's sake.. here he goes.. yeah here's a man we should all listen to..

someone put him out of his misery..

Rush Limbaugh: Jared Loughner Has 'Full Support' Of Democratic Party

Rush is just a level headed conservative that reports what the MSM doesn't want to show us.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:31 PM   #314
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People always say, "The bad guys will get guns anyway," and I just don't think that's true. I don't think Jared Loughner would have had a gun if they were banned.


he wouldn't have gotten a semi-automatic if Bush hadn't let the ban expire a few years ago.
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:32 PM   #315
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Rush is just a level headed conservative that reports what the MSM doesn't want to show us.
oh yeah.. how could I forget this
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