U S Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, shot at public appearance!! - Page 20 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-11-2011, 12:15 PM   #286
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,172
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
why don't you go back and actually listen to that interview and then tell me about it. it was a play on the cliche "kill two birds with one stone" in the context of an interview with Bill Maher. it was understood as a joke then by EVERYONE not just me, and it actually NEVER MADE THE NEWS because it was a joke.
Yes, I'm fully aware it was in the "context" of the "two birds" expression. If you want context, you need to realize that this was said at the height of Bush's unpopularity, and with one month until the Democrats were poised to make huge gains in the midterms (which, don't be naive, could very well be why this wasn't mentioned in the media). Kerry's not the brightest crayon in the box, so it's hard to know if he even knew what he was saying and the repercussions it could have in such the anti-Bush environment. Regardless, again, it was reckless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
most Americans have no idea who these people are. none of them were elected to anything.
That's not what was being discussed. I was simply responding to dazzledbylight being unaware of violent threats against conservatives coming from Rhodes and other talkers. But if you want to play the "these people are unknown" card, then you need to stop suggesting Rush Limbaugh is dangerous, too, as roughly 96% of the American population never listen to him.

Back to the larger issue, if people insist on placing blame outside of the perpetrator himself, they need to look much less so at politics and much more so at violent video games, violent tv shows, movies, and violent music. It's true that this guy had a longstanding beef with Giffords, but on the whole, these things are much more likely to set off someone who is mentally unstable than is seeing an image on Palin's website. As evidenced by the motives behind Columbine, among other tragedies, these forms of entertainment are a much larger scar on American society than Sarah Palin is.
__________________

__________________
2861U2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 12:57 PM   #287
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
purpleoscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,294
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
2. You still haven't answered the question(s)
The problem with your second question is answered by your answer to the first question. You don't like it when the Democrats overblow things but the conservatives won't stop being outraged by the the instigation in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
I would argue that the conservative media is a disproportionately strong response to the other. As for limited government, I see a lot of conservatives mentioning it, but I don't see a lot of conservatives working towards it. The tax cut to the rich cost this country $900 billion. Pardon me if I question your convinction to limited government and reigning in spending, much less actually working towards solving problems in this country, when you threaten to basically bring the government to a halt unless you get your tax cut. Also, I don't see too many conservatives willing to entertain the idea of cuts to defense spending, yet if you're really honest about limited government, that also means limiting the reach of government abroad.
The reasons for tax cuts for the corporations and the rich is because they hire people. Increasing their tax load slows growth which slows gains in employment. I agree that the conservatives now have to show they are willing to look at cuts in military and across the board and some are showing that conviction now. I'll hammer them (including the tea party) when they fail at doing so. The U.S. can't afford to go bankrupt because who will bail them out? China?

I've already stated that since MSM, academia and art is full of left-wing bias I don't find talk radio, fox news and internet conservative magazines as an over response at all. This is where we would agree to disagree because you probably find MSM an example of good sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KhanadaRhodes View Post
you're joking, right? you do realise how many people have cable or satellite tv these days as well as the overwhelming majority of people (in various polls) who say they get their news from fox news instead of abc, nbc, cbs, npr, etc.
The last I checked some years ago ABC, NBC, and CBS have greater ratings than any of the Cable stations and Fox News was beating CNN. I actually hope you're right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Do you even realize how truly uninformed you sound when you make statements like this?
This is how I view the dream of the left:



Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Jon Stewart nails it again

It's sad that a comedian does it better than everyone else in the media.

Maybe the solution is get rid of all politicians and let the comedians run the show for awhile
Oh God it's hard to resist.
__________________

__________________
purpleoscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 12:59 PM   #288
Blue Crack Addict
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 29,705
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Yes, I'm fully aware it was in the "context" of the "two birds" expression. If you want context, you need to realize that this was said at the height of Bush's unpopularity, and with one month until the Democrats were poised to make huge gains in the midterms (which, don't be naive, could very well be why this wasn't mentioned in the media). Kerry's not the brightest crayon in the box, so it's hard to know if he even knew what he was saying and the repercussions it could have in such the anti-Bush environment. Regardless, again, it was reckless.

reckless? really? i'll just let you continue because you're embodying the defensive posture of the right wing so well right now that your posts are speaking for themselves.



Quote:
That's not what was being discussed. I was simply responding to dazzledbylight being unaware of violent threats against conservatives coming from Rhodes and other talkers. But if you want to play the "these people are unknown" card, then you need to stop suggesting Rush Limbaugh is dangerous, too, as roughly 96% of the American population never listen to him.

i have made a big distinction between pundits -- who, on all sides, need to calm down, but they are entertainers -- and actual politicians -- like Sarah Palin -- who have been elected to office.


Quote:
Back to the larger issue, if people insist on placing blame outside of the perpetrator himself, they need to look much less so at politics and much more so at violent video games, violent tv shows, movies, and violent music. It's true that this guy had a longstanding beef with Giffords, but on the whole, these things are much more likely to set off someone who is mentally unstable than is seeing an image on Palin's website. As evidenced by the motives behind Columbine, among other tragedies, these forms of entertainment are a much larger scar on American society than Sarah Palin is.

i'd say that easy access to powerful guns is what most helped this guy.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 01:00 PM   #289
Blue Crack Addict
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 29,705
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
I've already stated that since MSM, academia and art is full of left-wing bias


so, in essence, smart and creative people are liberal?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 01:37 PM   #290
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 38,362
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
The problem with your second question is answered by your answer to the first question. You don't like it when the Democrats overblow things but the conservatives won't stop being outraged by the the instigation in the first place.
You're just unequipped for this type of discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
I've already stated that since MSM, academia and art is full of left-wing bias
So those seeking to learn more and can think out of the box are liberal?

What does that say about you. Are you trying to say those that celebrate ignorance and are status quo drones are conservative?


Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post

This is how I view the dream of the left:
Just keep shining light upon that ignorance...
__________________
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 02:18 PM   #291
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Flyover country
Posts: 12,785
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
The problem with your second question is answered by your answer to the first question. You don't like it when the Democrats overblow things but the conservatives won't stop being outraged by the the instigation in the first place.
I think it's a gross mis-characterization to say that the MSM initiates the overblowing things, and then the conservative media only overblows things in response.


Quote:
The reasons for tax cuts for the corporations and the rich is because they hire people. Increasing their tax load slows growth which slows gains in employment.
Again I find that a bit of an over-simplification, and a misleading one. House and Senate Republicans have been saying that we have to extend the tax cut because these people will provide a valuable boost to our economy, through hiring and investment, etc. This tax cut isn't a new thing, it's been around for 8 years. It's quite misleading to talk about it as if it's the answer to getting our economy back on track. Our economy went down with this tax cut in place.

Quote:
I agree that the conservatives now have to show they are willing to look at cuts in military and across the board and some are showing that conviction now.
Again, some have claimed to be serious about it, but when it comes down to it, they're perfectly willing to pile another $900 billion onto our deficit to satisfy their own interests. And now that everyone is gearing up for the upcoming presidential election, we're going to see a whole lot more empty rhetoric (from both sides, I'll admit) about fiscal responsibility, without much action to back it up.

Quote:
I've already stated that since MSM, academia and art is full of left-wing bias I don't find talk radio, fox news and internet conservative magazines as an over response at all. This is where we would agree to disagree because you probably find MSM an example of good sources.
Yup, I don't think we're going to find much common ground there.

Quote:
Oh God it's hard to resist.
By any chance, did you actually watch the clip? Because the surprising (and reassuring) thing is the complete lack of partisan jabs or political posturing at all. I would think (and hope) that people from any political persuasion would be able to watch it and agree with what he's saying.
__________________
My business! | My hobby!
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 03:04 PM   #292
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Back to the larger issue, if people insist on placing blame outside of the perpetrator himself, they need to look much less so at politics and much more so at violent video games, violent tv shows, movies, and violent music. It's true that this guy had a longstanding beef with Giffords, but on the whole, these things are much more likely to set off someone who is mentally unstable than is seeing an image on Palin's website. As evidenced by the motives behind Columbine, among other tragedies, these forms of entertainment are a much larger scar on American society than Sarah Palin is.
Are you seriously suggesting Marilyn Manson was responsible for the Columbine massacre?
__________________
financeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 03:06 PM   #293
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 18,407
Local Time: 11:13 AM
I just want everyone on the right to shut up and go away. I'm exhausted by them. Seriously.
__________________
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 03:09 PM   #294
Blue Crack Distributor
 
bono_212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 80,068
Local Time: 08:13 AM
Right now, in this thread, it would be nice if everyone would just shut up a bit. You're all saying you want this to stop, but you're in-fighting amongst yourselves at such a rate, it's honestly a bit hard to even keep up. The point here is that 6 people are dead, one of them a child, and the flat out main reason is because someone with an obviously noted by the people around him mental illness went unchecked and that person was given a gun. It's a tragedy, and the way you're acting isn't really being quite as respectful of those who have passed as you could be.

That's just how I feel at the moment, having followed this thread almost from the beginning. Everyone's allowed a rant now and again, right?
__________________
bono_212 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 03:18 PM   #295
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,172
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Are you seriously suggesting Marilyn Manson was responsible for the Columbine massacre?
What I'm saying is that you can't tell politicians to cool it without telling Hollywood to as well. For those looking to identify outlets that can influence and aggravate potentially or already unstable people, violent forms of entertainment are a much greater factor that people in politics. Harris and Klebold were huge fans of Doom and similar games, referenced NBK (Natural Born Killers) as a code for their attack, etc.
__________________
2861U2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 03:21 PM   #296
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 61,637
Local Time: 08:13 AM
2861U2, have you read Dave Cullen's book Columbine? Fascinating (and yes, horrifying). It's very eye-opening as to the motives. Long story short - surprise, surprise - the media took ideas and ran with them, even though they turned out to be untrue.

One of my (left wing, for the record) friends on Facebook made a similar comment about comparing the shitstorm against Palin to the panic/outrage about rap and heavy metal music in the past.

It gave me pause; it was a good point. But the more I thought about it, the more secure I felt in believing that it's not a bad thing to want to hold politicians to a higher standard than we would the entertainment industry. They're trying to lead.
__________________
corianderstem is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 03:22 PM   #297
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 18,407
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Palin lied about it. That's the most frustrating part of this whole deal, to me.
__________________
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 03:27 PM   #298
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 38,362
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
What I'm saying is that you can't tell politicians to cool it without telling Hollywood to as well. For those looking to identify outlets that can influence and aggravate potentially or already unstable people, violent forms of entertainment are a much greater factor that people in politics. Harris and Klebold were huge fans of Doom and similar games, referenced NBK (Natural Born Killers) as a code for their attack, etc.
Well these are two entirely different discussions, this has been the talking point on right radio today but it's just slight of hand.

One can argue the desensitization that may or may not happen with art and video games, etc. But few(if any) of these actually list specific targets and call out enemies by name.

So, like I said two completely different conversations.

This particular event was caused by a mentally disturbed anti-government individual. Period.
__________________
BVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 03:29 PM   #299
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
so, in essence, smart and creative people are liberal?
I think it may be more that liberals are more likely to be willing to devote themselves to producing original scholarly/creative/journalistic work in return for (in all likelihood) little money. I have plenty of very bright, thoughtful conservative students, but overwhelmingly they're aiming from the get-go at careers in business or law, and overwhelmingly that's exactly where they wind up, despite many of them doing very well with academic and creative work in the meantime. Put it another way, the sense of 'cultural capital' as a thing of value (and, I suppose, prestige) in its own right, not just instrumentally, doesn't seem quite as strong there. It's certainly not a matter of basic aptitude or potential. I can't speak to the situation in the sciences, but my understanding is that similar trends are noted there, i.e. the desire for careers in industry far outstrips the interest in research and education.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 03:35 PM   #300
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: nyc
Posts: 51,735
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
2861U2, have you read Dave Cullen's book Columbine? Fascinating (and yes, horrifying). It's very eye-opening as to the motives. Long story short - surprise, surprise - the media took ideas and ran with them, even though they turned out to be untrue.

One of my (left wing, for the record) friends on Facebook made a similar comment about comparing the shitstorm against Palin to the panic/outrage about rap and heavy metal music in the past.

It gave me pause; it was a good point. But the more I thought about it, the more secure I felt in believing that it's not a bad thing to want to hold politicians to a higher standard than we would the entertainment industry. They're trying to lead.
i agree... but these are separate issues.

the rhetoric has gotten out of control. palin is a dipshit who was incredibly irresponsible in putting crosshairs on her images, and who probably thought for herself that she might even be responsible when this story broke as well, evidenced by her pulling those images off her sites.

the rhetoric does need to stop... but that should be a different thread, a different discussion. this was not some politically motivated tea party supporter, or some separatist militia member.

this was a complete, utter psychopath. a person who should have been institutionalized years ago. but here we are, trying to put blame on something. the blame is in the hands of the shooter. he's fucking nuts. it's not the music, it's not the movies, it's not the internet, and it's not sarah palin. it's that this guy was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. if he hadn't had a long standing grudge with giffords, it would have been someone else.

even if, in some way, rush limbaugh's rhetoric triggered something in this kid's brain to act... which i find to be ludicrous... but even if... if it wasn't rush, it would have been something else. because the guy's nutzo.

where we failed, in this case, was in his schooling... somewhere along the line teachers, administrators, somebody... should have taken the obvious warning signs and gotten this kid the help that he desperately needed. THAT is the issue here.

is the rhetoric on both sides of the aisle an issue? you're damn right it is. it's a huge one. it's why i hate both parties. but it shouldn't be THIS issue.
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
loughner note, rush limbaugh, sheriff dupnik

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com