U S Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, shot at public appearance!! - Page 17 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-10-2011, 09:35 PM   #241
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Do you think it's healthy when news organization effectively serve as echo chambers for political parties?

Do you think it's healthy when politicians get ostracized when they dare cross 'their own' media figures?
It's okay when the left already does that. It's called competition. This conversation with you will get nowhere precisely because you don't admit liberal bias in mainstream media. That is why there will continue to be conservative media and there's nothing you can do about it short of the "Fairness Doctrine".

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Do you have any sources for this specific liberal rhetoric? If not, you're only adding to the overblown rhetoric.
The entire situation with this shooting is a source. I've been posting about it here for YEARS. What do you think most conservative media is about? A huge portion of Talk Radio and commentary shows on Fox News talk about media bias. I don't need to post millions of sources because you can do that yourself. All you have to do is turn on the TV or the radio and consume conservative commentary shows and pretty soon they will point out what they think is liberal bias.

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I haven't seen anyone in the media use this as an excuse to dismiss the entire conservative viewpoint. I have seen people use it as an excuse to argue against the political tactics employed by conservative politicians in order to stir up support. Yes, they're turning a blind eye to some overblown rhetoric from the left, but there's a big difference between saying this is proof that some rhetoric needs to stop, and saying that this is proof that an entire political persuasion needs to end.
And to paint the Tea Party as psychopathic killers by association. This is an obvious tactic that's been used by the MSM by excluding responses by those accused. It's not a small problem that they ignore the extremes of the left sometimes. This is routine. To leftists it may not be noticed so conservatives have to have their own publications and are able to find hours and hours of material to justify their ratings. Right-wing talk radio would be out of business if the MSM did their job.

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Some of the saddest words written in FYM...
Speaking of echo chambers
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:42 PM   #242
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Speaking of echo chambers
Look back at your whole post. You're a person that loves echoes and never lets facts get in the way. I like facts and hate echoes. You never have nor will you ever see me post a source from an echo chamber or bless a definite left leaning source.
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:42 PM   #243
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you know, my Dad and I met a man who worked at a car museum in Sacramento. and he was genuinely shocked that we don't have guns. "what do you do when someone breaks into your house?" he said. we replied that has never happened.
Has he never heard of blunt, heavy objects? Knives? Hell, even feet and fists?

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he then said "we get a lot of blacks and hispanics breaking in". i wanted to ask, "what happens if they break in and you have a gun? you can't shoot them can you? you'll get done for murder. or something." but i didn't ask. i didn't want to further the discussion.
Heh, sounds like what I would've done.

(What's the race of the people got to do with it? That's another question I would've asked)

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why do you need guns? they're so ugly, so violent.
Yep. I don't get it.

Angela
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:50 PM   #244
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At any rate, I don't know how you could look at the video clip where Giffords herself talks about inflammatory rhetoric after her office was vandalized and not acknowledge that the hyperbolic language has gotten out of hand.


for my entire 33 years on this planet, i have heard conservatives blame everything bad in our world on the decline of American "culture" -- it's Hollywood's fault, no prayer in school, pot, the 1960s, popular music, the gays, the feminists, the "liberals," Dr. Spock, Jane Fonda, Madonna, etc.

and yet, suddenly, when it comes to gun violence, culture has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on personal choices and the individual acts alone and solely upon his own free will.

it's an eerily similar flipside to the notion of how our military is the greatest fighting force in the history of history, and yet the presence of a single out gay person in the shower will destroy it in one fell swoop.
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:51 PM   #245
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I would hope this incident would bring us together as a nation, not further tear us apart. Alas, that does not appear to be happening.
I'm more optimistic. I think this sad event has the potential to be a real turning point, if people put down the partisanship. Then and now, I cringed when Sharron Angle referenced "2nd Amendment remedies" (though, not that it's even worth mentioning, I wasn't a fan of her, but whatever). And looking back, I can acknowledge that the image on Palin's website was uncalled for, albeit in hindsight. I hope my friends on the left can recognize similar examples by prominent people on their side and reject them as well. While it might be good politics to show an opponent in crosshairs (as both sides have done) we need to be better people than this. It's that simple. I know that if I ever see something like that come from the right, I'll denounce it. People on the left need to do the same. If this tragedy can get everybody to start doing that simple, decent act, we'll be a lot better off.

ETA: Bill O'Reilly said it well tonight. He said that there comes a time when we all, without having to compromise our political principles and beliefs, need to recognize basic truths or else our country will disappear. If a congressman can't speak to their constituents on a street corner without fear of getting shot, we're in trouble.
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:30 PM   #246
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Look back at your whole post. You're a person that loves echoes and never lets facts get in the way. I like facts and hate echoes. You never have nor will you ever see me post a source from an echo chamber or bless a definite left leaning source.
Here we go again! Like I was saying to Diemen. The left and the right don't agree on what is an echo chamber or not. Here's an example of why there is demand for conservative talk shows:

Democrats Eager to See Obama Profit Politically from Mass Murder

Quote:
CALLER: It was so different than when the Oklahoma bombing happened. It's so night and day. I could not wait 'til Monday at 12:05 when you first hit the airway, I gotta tell you, and I was talking to two of my associates in the office, and they both at 12 o'clock were gonna tune into your station because we all were chomping the bit, and we all felt, 'Thank God there's somebody out there speaking for us," because something like this happens, you just feel so helpless and you just feel so angry and you just want to say, "Hey, this is not us! This is not us."

RUSH: Exactly.

CALLER: And there you are helping us through this. And it's so maddening and frustrating.
Unless the right gets that satisfaction from the MSM there will be a demand for conservative shows. If you want to eliminate Rush Limbaugh then allow those points of view in contrast to the typical news we get from ABC, CBS and NBC/MSNBC.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:19 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
It's okay when the left already does that.

...

The entire situation with this shooting is a source.
You're quite adept at dodging questions.

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This conversation with you will get nowhere precisely because you don't admit liberal bias in mainstream media.
The thing is, oscar, you never asked me what my thoughts on liberal bias are. You simply ascribe an opinion to whoever is disagreeing with you me, without actually bothering to find out whether it's actually true or not. Not every disagreement is black and white, us vs. them, liberal vs. conservative, good guys vs bad guys, etc. ad nauseum.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:20 PM   #248
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Here's an interesting interview:

EXCLUSIVE: Roger Ailes & Russell Simmons: Both Sides Are Wrong - Page 3370701 | Global Grind

Quote:
Roger Ailes, the President of Fox News, spoke exclusively with Russell Simmons, the founder of GlobalGrind.com. Following the horrific shootings in Tucson, Arizona on Saturday, January 8, 2011, Mr. Simmons and Mr. Ailes spoke about the rising tension within the media.

Roger Ailes: They knew about this guy (Jared Lee Loughner). The education system knew about this guy...they kicked him out of school and told him until he gets a letter saying he’s not going to kill anybody, he can’t come back to school. The police department picked him up five times and let him go and nobody screened him for getting a weapon...So, by the time he decided to go to a mall and and wanting to kill somebody, he was attached to nobody. He was a flag burner. He just was not attached to the Tea Party.

It’s just a bullshit way to use the death of a little girl to get Fox News in an argument.

Russell Simmons: One thing I am sick of...I really want to see the people govern this country. And I want to see the people on the Right’s voice be respected, and the people on the Left's voice be respected-

Roger Ailes: That’s what should happen. You know, they’re using this thing...apparently there was a map from one of Palin’s things that had her (Congresswoman Giffords) targeted district. So, we looked at the internet and the first thing we found in 2007, the Democrat Party had a targeted map with targets on it for the Palin district. These maps have been used for for years that I know of. I have two pictures of myself with a bull's-eye on my head. This is just bullshit. This goes on... both sides are wrong, but they both do it.

I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually. You don’t have to do it with bombast. I hope the other side does that.

Listen, I have a picture of Sarah Palin hanging from the end of a rope. They made a doll up like her and hung her.

Russell Simmons: Angry Left, angry Right...none of it's good. We need to create a dialogue, which I’d like to be part of, that brings people together to have intellectual discussion on how to govern this country. I think the President, although he has opinions which are to the left of center in a lot of America, and I’m to the left of him...

Roger Ailes (laughs): Then you must be skinny, you can’t get between him and the wall. You gotta to be one skinny guy, man.

Russell Simmons: There’s a lot of room between him and the wall. He is very progressive, but I think he’s willing to making a lot of good deals for America. And I want to push for that.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:24 PM   #249
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Here we go again! Like I was saying to Diemen. The left and the right don't agree on what is an echo chamber or not.
It's really not a matter of agreeing upon... There's a certain objectivity to the definition of an echo chamber.

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Originally Posted by purpleoscar View Post
Here's an example of why there is demand for conservative talk shows:

Democrats Eager to See Obama Profit Politically from Mass Murder



Unless the right gets that satisfaction from the MSM there will be a demand for conservative shows. If you want to eliminate Rush Limbaugh then allow those points of view in contrast to the typical news we get from ABC, CBS and NBC/MSNBC.
Really? This is your example?

No one wants to eliminate Rush, we would just like for the far right to understand he's not news. We would like for you to understand what he is and take him at that...

Should your "point of view" be incorporated in the "MSM" if there's no logic to it? I have to laugh when the far right call something like NPR a liberal source. Just because NPR won't offer junk science as a legitimate source or argue against gay marriage with nothing but hatred as their source doesn't make it a liberal medium. It just means your base(the average Rush listener) perspective is skewed.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:28 PM   #250
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I couldn't have asked for a more perfect example of overblown rhetoric than that, oscar:

1. A few isolated left-wingers talk about Obama needing a tragedy to connect with the American people. Overblown rhetoric!!

2. Rush Limbaugh uses a few isolated instances of overblown rhetoric as a spring board to claim that "Democrats Eager to See Obama Profit Politically from Mass Murder."

OVERBLOWN RHETORIC!!!

Honestly, did that headline not even phase you? If the answer to overblown rhetoric is more overblown rhetoric, then we're doomed.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:44 PM   #251
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There is a definite inability for a lot of people in the U.S. to distinguish between 'news' and 'commentary'. It's half ignorance, but the other half is a kind of fingers-in-ears 'blah blah blah I can't HEARRRR YOU' to reality.

Just because a talk show host is trying to pander to your beliefs or social values, so they can make money from their Cash for Gold ads or whatever, doesn't mean they are reporting the news. They're spoon-feeding you what you want to hear because it's how they became famous.

Watch the British or Canadian version of 'hard news' and you'll be bored to death. News is boring when there's no spin being put on it by an overzealous editorial staff. Hell, watch Al Jazera. Even Al Jay has more journalistic integrity than U.S. cable news.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:47 PM   #252
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There is a definite inability for a lot of people in the U.S. to distinguish between 'news' and 'commentary'. It's half ignorance, but the other half is a kind of fingers-in-ears 'blah blah blah I can't HEARRRR YOU' to reality.
One of the true declines of America.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:50 PM   #253
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You're quite adept at dodging questions.
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Do you think it's healthy when news organization effectively serve as echo chambers for political parties?
Do you have a problem with Democrats that do that? One is the response to the other and both have talking points and an agenda. The conservative media wants to point out what gets left out by the MSM and they support limited government. The MSM would like the U.S. to turn into Scandinavia.

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Do you think it's healthy when politicians get ostracized when they dare cross 'their own' media figures?
Those media figures have an audience that want Republicans to not go weak like during the Bush years. "Compassionate conservatives" = big spending and no compassion for taxpayers. The conservatives and even some Democrats have had enough.

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The thing is, oscar, you never asked me what my thoughts on liberal bias are. You simply ascribe an opinion to whoever is disagreeing with you me, without actually bothering to find out whether it's actually true or not. Not every disagreement is black and white, us vs. them, liberal vs. conservative, good guys vs bad guys, etc. ad nauseum.
Associating a political movement with a lunatic is not just criticizing tactics. It's to make that movement lose gravitas to the general public and independents and to therefore create a result that no one takes them seriously.

If I wanted to I could say this lunatic shooter was so left-wing that he looked at Giffords as not left-wing enough and that this represents the kind of anger from people like Ayers and then connect Ayers to Obama. You can do anything.

BTW most politics is us vs. them in the sense that political parties take opposing roles. The reality is that there is much division politically and it's not going away. The only time I see more "crossing the aisle" tactics is when the economy is good most of the laws proposed are not too controversial. Most of the time parties take stands and look at the other side as the problem (including Democrats). Therefore the "black vs white" comparison will continue because usually politicians want to stake a claim on certain policies. Can you imagine an election where two candidates don't have significant differences?
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:00 AM   #254
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The MSM would like the U.S. to turn into Scandinavia.
Do you even realize how truly uninformed you sound when you make statements like this?
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:04 AM   #255
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The conservative media wants to point out what gets left out by the MSM and they support limited government. The MSM would like the U.S. to turn into Scandinavia.
Um, Fox News and Rush is the most popular cable news network and one of the most popular syndicated radio hosts in the U.S.

Where is this "underdog" conservative mentality coming from, exactly, purpleoscar? For all intents and purposes, the 'MSM' in the States is Fox News and Rush and Beck.
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