U S Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, a Democrat, shot at public appearance!! - Page 13 - U2 Feedback

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Old 01-10-2011, 12:56 AM   #181
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hopefully, if they do rock up with pickets, they'll get their fucking heads kicked in.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:59 AM   #182
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If they even DARE to show up at that little girl's funeral, so help me, God... I hope they get chased out of town.

Angela
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:07 AM   #183
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I understand the need for freedom of speech and all that, but... fuck, can't you guys just jail those worthless fucks?

As for the shooting itself, I just don't really know what to say. It's just awful. GAF put it well. Guns are stupid. This should just never happen. God speed to Gabrielle and the other victims.
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:18 AM   #184
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And kudos to Sheriff Dupnik for not backing down, reiterating tonight what he said last night, that the violent imagery and rhetoric from members of the media, while maybe not directly responsible for this, contributed to the climate that led to this event.
Agreed. We shouldn't so easily place people into "us" versus "them" camps. To summarize an entire person (their life, dreams, thoughts, training, setbacks, pain, joy...etc) by such a simple label as "conservative" or "liberal" seems to stand against everything the best of either side has ever preached.
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:22 AM   #185
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Indeed, AEON. I'd love to think this will be a massive wake-up call for people to chill out. I'm not holding my breath on that happening, but it sure would be nice to see.

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I understand the need for freedom of speech and all that, but... fuck, can't you guys just jail those worthless fucks?
I think that's a fantastic idea. I just want them to go away and never, ever come back. Ever.

Angela
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:16 AM   #186
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Agreed about the racheting up of rhetoric as a general point, but using that relatively innocuous poster is a piss poor example, TBH.
relatively innocuous?

I don't know what kind of visual tropes you respond to....but as soon as I saw that poster back in the '08 campaign... i was disgusted!

thhose are very simple easily-identifed cross-hair icons.

Plus the color they use for those retired-- a deep blood red.

That red is not your typical
red of the red, white and blue American flag.
American Flag Red this is much closer to our flag's red, not what is in that poster.
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:25 AM   #187
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Anyone who believes that was to be taken literally is an idiot.

In today's environment, when the D or R next to your name is becoming increasingly irrelevant, why is there no thought being entertained that the shooter was a liberal? In today's Democratic Party, Giffords is a moderate, and the extreme left is just as guilty in using violent rhetoric and calls for revolution as is the right.
America in some ways has moved more to the right since Reaan's time; so that liberals to certain people now look like far, left-wing extremists.

There used to be many more moderate-liberal Republicans in Congress. Not any more, most are now right to very right wing conservatives who want to take us back to the 1920's.

there's still a hell of a lot of difference in basic philospophic differnce in the Democratic vs Republican party
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:57 AM   #188
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I think this guy definitely seems mentally ill, so I don't know if he was even capable of having any real and/or intellectual political motivations. But the truth remains that it has gotten out of hand in this country, so much so that who knows who could have those and take them to a violent extreme on a daily basis. She was targeted and threatened over her vote for health care. Look at how some people behaved during that time.

It won't change though, when the story fades it will go back to business as usual. But it sure is a damn shame that that beautiful little girl never will again, nor will any of the other people who died. Looking at that picture of her breaks my heart.
you are usually very thoughtful in your FYM comment Ms S, but this is a vey out-dated model/perception of people living with mental illness.

There is a broad spectrum of various conditoins, and within each condition a range of levels and a list of syptoms. From that each indiviudal will almost never quite manifest in exactly the same way, due to personal biochemstry factors, environmental: familial, friends an larger circles of the area/society they live in.

They have a range of intrlectual and creative abilities, just as the general populous has, and are often quite capable of using them when thier single or multiple illlness(s) are under control in a rangle of levels of equilibrium/balance.

------------------

as to the other part...as cori and anitram have also pointed out...the atmosphere of political talk chiefly from the right has reached quite a vitriolic pitch over the last several years.

Being part news & political junkie i know this.
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:23 AM   #189
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Off the top of my head...


I don't want to drag this discussion back into the trenches, but it needs to be emphasized that this happens on both sides. Trying to emphatically state which party traffics in that more is pointless and impossible to know, and I echo the sentiments that a tragedy like this should simply not happen in America, as if that even needs to be said.
at this time of "night" for me(not gone to sleep yet , catching up with this whole story) it was much easier to grab the comparison of President Obama than Congress people...as the example

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A CNN source with very close to the U.S. Secret Service confirmed to me today that threats on the life of the president of the United States have now risen by as much as 400 percent since his inauguration, 400 percent death threats against Barack Obama — quote — “in this environment” go far beyond anything the Secret Service has seen with any other president.
there are definitely more real extreme right wing people inthis country than far extreme left wing people then there have been in decades.

Even back in the days of Vietnam there weren't that mnay. The Weathermen were fairly small bunches of people.
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:54 AM   #190
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hopefully, if they do rock up with pickets, they'll get their fucking heads kicked in.
That's what they want. Like 20% of the WBC is made up of lawyers who sue the shit out of anyone who does something like that.
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Old 01-10-2011, 09:58 AM   #191
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America in some ways has moved more to the right since Reaan's time; so that liberals to certain people now look like far, left-wing extremists.
I hope you're not trying to dismiss the idea that there are prominent FAR-LEFT people in Washington, journalism, the media, society, etc...

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There used to be many more moderate-liberal Republicans in Congress.
Actually, there are now a hell of a lot more moderate Republicans in Congress than moderate Democrats. This is a fact.

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who want to take us back to the 1920's.
Oh please. That's just pathetic.
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:00 AM   #192
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Actually, there are now a hell of a lot more moderate Republicans in Congress than moderate Democrats. This is a fact.
American politics are farther right than most other developed nations in the world. That is a fact.
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:51 AM   #193
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Off the top of my head...

Barack Obama saying something along the lines of "If they bring a knife, you bring a gun"... The beating of Kenneth Gladney by SEIU members.... A Democrat challenging GOP Congressman JD Hayworth in 2006 using a campaign ad in which Hayworth is featured in the crosshairs of a rifle... Multiple guests on MSNBC in the past few months making calls for violent revolutions... The fact that Olbermann references "the worst people in the world" (99.9% of them being conservatives, and largely prominent people like politicians and media figures)... The fact that Olby begins said segment with "get out your pitchforks and torches".... DailyKos kook Markos Moulitsas naming his book "American Taliban"... NPR's Nina Totenberg wishing AIDS on Jesse Helms... And if we're saying that the word "target" is off limits now, I can cite countless press releases and postings from Media Matters, Kos, DCCC, etc, referencing politicians that are "targets" and have "bullseyes" on them. I haven't even brought up the violent threats and attacks made against President Bush over the past decade, and I hope you won't make me. Should I start, I could go on for days.


this is so, so weak. none of this even compares to the specificity of the Palin camp, and her repeated use of violent "lock and load" imagery combined with her gleeful obliteration of animals on her TLC show. the worship of gun violence has long, long been a conservative trait, and we've seen this from references to federal judges where Cronyn expressed sympathy and understanding for those who would wish to shoot "activist judges" to Sharon Angle musing about "2nd Amendment" solutions to Harry Reid. there is no equivalent on the Left

comparing these things to what you've teased out above shows just how nervous the right wing is and how quickly they are circling the wagons.

i don't think anyone is responsible for this violence, but the fact that you can't regret the use of such language and instead are trying to justify it and make equivocations is indicative of defensiveness.

or, maybe, retribution through gun violence is just no big deal, and you think that's the equivalent of "worst person in the world" because, in your mind, when you name someone the "worst person in the world" your instinct is to automatically shoot that person?

absolutely, charged, hyperbolic, emotional political speech comes out of the Left. but it does not come close to matching the violent specificity of that on the Right, and the very mainstream Right.

after all, Ms. Palin was the nominee for VP in 2008. that's not some fringe Congressperson or Senator or commentator on MSNBC. Giffords herself worried about the kind of language that Sarah Palin used, people objected to it at the time worrying about an incident such as this at some point in the future. i don't think that the suspect in this case was even thinking about Sarah Palin's words when he shot all those people. but the point we're making -- that seems to be sailing over the heads, perhaps willfully, of the right wing blogosphere, and of Sarah Palin, who as ever, sees herself as the true victim in this incident -- is that that while correlation does not prove causation, the atmosphere has been poisoned to a disturbing degree and mostly and most violently by the Right.

so let's all try to stop acting surprised, America.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:22 AM   #194
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I understand the need for freedom of speech and all that, but... fuck, can't you guys just jail those worthless fucks?

As for the shooting itself, I just don't really know what to say. It's just awful. GAF put it well. Guns are stupid. This should just never happen. God speed to Gabrielle and the other victims.

I agree. With freedom of speech comes a certain responsibility. WBC is a cult and a dangerous one at that. They are in no way affiated with the Baptist Church or any other denomination of Christianity. Quite frankly, the rest of us think they are insane and there are issues of child abuse. Teaching children that "God Hates Fags" ( I hate that word) is mentally damaging to children. I follow the Christ Path and personally believe that God loves all of his children. No one is excluded. It sickens me to no end that WBC refers to themselves as Christians. They obviously have never read the New Testiment or The Greatest Commandment. Jesus made it perfectly clear. "Love all others, as I have loved you."

My heart is breaking for all of the people who were killed and injured. It is absolutely horrible what their families are going through and to shoot a precious little girl, killing her. Is beyond me. My prayers are with them. I heard an interview with Christina's mom and I couldn't stop crying. I still cry when I see her picture. I have a grand daughter who is only a couple of years younger than her and would be out of my mind if something like this happened. We need to ban guns.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:10 PM   #195
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I hope you're not trying to dismiss the idea that there are prominent FAR-LEFT people in Washington, journalism, the media, society, etc...
Far left in reality, or far left in your perspective?



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Actually, there are now a hell of a lot more moderate Republicans in Congress than moderate Democrats. This is a fact.
Really? Where are they? The party that fillibustered more than anyone in history, the party that voted no for 9/11 responders, the party that stood for... 'NO'? Where are the moderates?
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