U.S. and Allies Strike Libya - Page 5 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-21-2011, 04:07 PM   #61
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 459
Local Time: 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobvok View Post
Hooray multilateralism!
That's simply because the US has more ships with that capability in the area. The 6th fleet is based in Italy. There are three UK ships with Tomahawk's en route. The two ships the UK had close are type 22 and 23 frigates which don't carry Tomahawks, they're anti submarine and anti ship specialists. You fire Tomahawks at air defense and C&C sites to gain air superiority.

The UK and French are supplying more aircraft, and Obama implied that the US will be stepping back their committed air resources once the Danish and Canadian forces are fully operational.

This is currently US led, but that's simply a matter of the US having the resources close at hand when it all kicked off.
__________________

__________________
popshopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 04:20 PM   #62
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
mobvok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: boom clap
Posts: 4,428
Local Time: 04:13 AM
That's a plausible analysis, but we need to keep in mind for the future it's in the Administration's interest for PR to minimize the role of the US in this action and declare that European countries are "leading" it. Both claims should be supported by evidence before accepting it.
__________________

__________________
mobvok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 04:34 PM   #63
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,471
Local Time: 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobvok View Post


it's amazing what a Democratic president will do to change conservative minds about the logic of bombing Muslims.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 04:35 PM   #64
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,974
Local Time: 07:13 AM
Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) has panned President Obama's decision to participate in Saturday's missile attack on Libya, going so far as to question whether the strikes should be considered an "impeachable offense."

In a lengthy statement dated March 18 and re-printed in full on his website, Kucinich notes:

" While the action is billed as protecting the civilians of Libya, a no-fly-zone begins with an attack on the air defenses of Libya and Qaddafi forces. It is an act of war. The president made statements which attempt to minimize U.S. action, but U.S. planes may drop U.S. bombs and U.S. missiles may be involved in striking another sovereign nation. War from the air is still war."

As Politico is reporting, Kucinich raised the prospect of impeachment during a Saturday conference call, and is just one member of a group of liberal House Democrats questioning the constitutionality of U.S. missile strikes against Libya. The congressman mainly objected to the fact that Congress was not consulted before the air strikes, Raw Story reports. In an interview, he told the site, "And I'm raising the question as to whether or not it's an impeachable offense. It would appear on its face to be an impeachable offense."

In his online statement, he added:

"It is hard to imagine that Congress, during the current contentious debate over deficits and budget cutting, would agree to plunge America into still another war, especially since America will spend trillions in total for the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and incursions into Pakistan. The last thing we need is to be embroiled in yet another intervention in another Muslim country. The American people have had enough. First it was Afghanistan, then Iraq. Then bombs began to fall in Pakistan, then Yemen, and soon it seems bombs could be falling in Libya. Our nation simply cannot afford another war, economically, diplomatically or spiritually."

As Kucinich reiterated Monday to MSNBC, "A decision was made to make American forces into a war [and] he didn't consult with Congress. What the consequences are politically, we'll see...but the fact is we're going to spend half a billion dollars in the first week on this war, we don't have the resources."
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 06:30 PM   #65
Paper Gods
Forum Administrator
 
KhanadaRhodes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: a vampire in the limousine
Posts: 60,598
Local Time: 06:13 AM
yeah i think both views are right. let's face it, war is a business. we won't go unless we have something to gain. knowing women will be safe isn't "good enough".

edit: oops, didn't notice there was another page. this was in response to the congo posts as well the oil ones.
__________________
KhanadaRhodes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 07:06 PM   #66
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
the iron horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in a glass of CheerWine
Posts: 3,251
Local Time: 07:13 AM
I just wanted to add to this discussion what America's third largest
political party had to say on this topic.


The U.S. Libertarian Party press release:

They hate us because we bomb them, says Libertarian Chair | Libertarian Party
__________________
the iron horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 07:42 PM   #67
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,327
Local Time: 07:13 AM
And the no blood for oil anti war marches will start soon, right? Wait, what? They're not? Oh.
__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 08:01 PM   #68
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramwest1 View Post
This really reminds me of the beginning of the Gulf War in January 1991. We know it's mostly a just action, but where the hell will it stop?
I am confused....the Gulf War in January 1991 had nothing to do with interfering with an internal Civil War within a nations borders.

Iraq invaded Kuwaitt, a soverign nation and was looking at Saudi Arabia.

Not sure how the two situations equate.
__________________
Dreadsox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:34 PM   #69
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
mobvok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: boom clap
Posts: 4,428
Local Time: 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
And the no blood for oil anti war marches will start soon, right? Wait, what? They're not? Oh.
The Bush Administration spent the better part of a year telling the world how friggin' amped they were to curbstomp Hussein before going in, we've spent less than a week knowing that Obama even wanted to do anything in Libya.
__________________
mobvok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:42 PM   #70
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
mobvok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: boom clap
Posts: 4,428
Local Time: 04:13 AM
A) The Western audience are total suckers for bland platitudes about Jeffersonian democracy and self-determination.

B)
Link
Quote:
According to a cache of al Qaeda documents captured in 2007 by U.S. special operations commandos in Sinjar, Iraq, hundreds of foreign fighters, many of them untrained young Islamic volunteers, poured into Iraq in 2006 and 2007. The documents, called the Sinjar documents, were collected, translated and analyzed at the West Point Counter Terrorism Center. Almost one in five foreign fighters arriving in Iraq came from eastern Libya, many from the city of Darnah. Others came from Surt and Misurata to the west.

On a per capita basis, that’s more than twice as many than came from any other Arabic-speaking country, amounting to what the counter terrorism center called a Libyan “surge" of young men eager to kill Americans.
It's totally keeping Qaddafi that offers the risk of instability, right?

C) If they turn around and start butchering Qaddafi loyalists, are we going to bomb them, too?

Quote:
In the neighborhoods of the capital that have staged major peaceful protests against Colonel Qaddafi, many have volunteered — speaking on the condition of anonymity — that their demonstrations were nonviolent mainly because they could not obtain weapons fast enough.
__________________
mobvok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 11:50 PM   #71
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
mobvok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: boom clap
Posts: 4,428
Local Time: 04:13 AM
Ivory Coast Civilians Ask: Where's our No-Fly Zone? - Political Punch
Quote:
ABC's Dana Hughes reports:

A leader holding onto power unleashes brutality against his own people; attacking women and children, using military might against unarmed civilians participating in everyday activities. At least 500 people are confirmed dead and nearly half a million are fleeing their homes, fearful for their lives. The UN warns of civil war, possible genocide and a humanitarian catastrophe if more isn't done. But this isn't Libya and the leader isn't Gadhafi. It's Cote d'Ivoire, more commonly known as Ivory Coast.

For nearly four months the international community, including the Obama Administration, have been calling for incumbent President Laurent Gbagbo to accept his loss of the presidential election and step down. Those calls have been met with brutal violence against anyone seen as a supporter of his rival Alessane Outtara. There has been video of tanks firing on unarmed women protesters, pictures of some of the more than 30 people killed when Pro-Gbagbo forces shelled directly into a crowded market, nightly messages on state TV by Gbagbo officials encouraging the youth to arm themselves and attack "the terrorists."

Reports of mercenaries from Liberia crossing back and forth between the two countries show the deteriorating situation in Ivory Coast is threatening to destabilize the whole region, leaving many Ivorians to ask: Where is our no-fly zone?

The Obama administration has put out many statements condemning the violence in Ivory Coast. Just today Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said "Gbagbo’s indiscriminate violence can't be tolerated. All individuals responsible for ordering or carrying out these heinous acts will have to answer for their actions.” She also said the administration has pledged over $12 million dollars to the World Food Program to help feed the hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing the fighting.

But aside from sanctions and a temporary boycott of cocoa exported from the country, the world's largest producer of the crop, little other action has been taken by the United States and the international community. On friday the New York Times published an editorial saying the world needed to do more to intervene before it's too late. Even a seemingly non-military intervention action like the United Nation's jamming the television and radio signals to stop broadcasts inciting violence would do some good in diffusing the situation, the Times argued. With the crisis escalating more every day, "the international community must move quickly to halt this terror," the Times said.

For Ivorians watching the crisis unfold, next to the attention Libya is getting, there is a feeling that the administration, and the West is willing to stand-by while the country descends into chaos and thousands are potentially killed. Twitter messages in English and French detail what's happening in the country and cry for help. One uses hashtags to Obama, Sarkozy, and various media outlets "S.O.S," @boomshake1 tweets "WE NEED HELP in COTE D IVOIRE GBAGBO KILLED US."

- Dana Hughes
Sounds like the democratic rebels need a convenient media narrative.
__________________
mobvok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 11:57 PM   #72
Blue Crack Distributor
 
corianderstem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 63,700
Local Time: 04:13 AM
As The Daily Show just put it tonight:

Libya attacks its own citizens, it gets a no-fly zone and missles.

Bahrain attacks its own citizens, it gets a "hey, let's tone it down" comment.

I'm about ready to just bury my damned head in the sand because the state of pretty much everything is so appalling/depressing/outrageous/corrupt/downright fucked, I can't even think straight about any of it right now, and I'm close to shutting my brain off and dissolving into the kind of helpless paralysis that is just what gets us into trouble.
__________________
corianderstem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 12:01 AM   #73
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,858
Local Time: 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobvok View Post
Ivory Coast Civilians Ask: Where's our No-Fly Zone? - Political Punch

Sounds like the democratic rebels need a convenient media narrative.
Press >>>>> Play >>>>>>>

Hey kid, you think that's oil?
Man, that ain't oil, that's blood
__________________
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 10:05 AM   #74
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
I am confused....the Gulf War in January 1991 had nothing to do with interfering with an internal Civil War within a nations borders.

Iraq invaded Kuwaitt, a soverign nation and was looking at Saudi Arabia.

Not sure how the two situations equate.
The two situations equate in how I said it reminds me that there doesn't seem to be a clear endpoint. I'm not going to get nitpicky about justifications, especially between the two.
Most people thought we should intervene in Kuwait, and most people think we should provide a No-Fly zone for Libya. But, my feeling is that in both cases where does our intervention end?

Do we drive the Iraqis out of Kuwait?/Do we provide cover for the Libyan rebels while they fight?

Do we destroy Saddam's/Gadhafi's military so they can't do this sort of thing again?

Do we kill/overthrow Saddam/Gadhafi and let the people sort out their country?

I think it's a fair comparison.
__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 11:53 AM   #75
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,327
Local Time: 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
As The Daily Show just put it tonight:

Libya attacks its own citizens, it gets a no-fly zone and missles.

Bahrain attacks its own citizens, it gets a "hey, let's tone it down" comment.

I'm about ready to just bury my damned head in the sand because the state of pretty much everything is so appalling/depressing/outrageous/corrupt/downright fucked, I can't even think straight about any of it right now, and I'm close to shutting my brain off and dissolving into the kind of helpless paralysis that is just what gets us into trouble.
bahrain doesn't give france 30% of it's oil.

all we've proven is that once again, when you go to the polls and pick between a republican and a democrat, you might as well be picking between a douche and a turd sandwich.
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com