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Old 07-27-2017, 06:26 PM   #1
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Transgender- do you know what it means?

I wanted to start a discussion on the general topic of transgender.

One that was a general discussion of what the term really means, and one specific to the military issue.

I remember when gay rights discussions started in FYM, I feel like the overall support and understanding is miles beyond where we started. And even though, no where near where it should be, I believe it's no longer as defined by political lines and even to an extent religious lines. Of course I wish it weren't even an issue, but at least in the US it has taken huge strides. My hope is that this issue will do the same.
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Old 07-27-2017, 06:39 PM   #2
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So specifically on the military issue; since Orange did this over Twitter and hasn't really made any order or plan was he just distracting, and was he hoping to win over fence sitters? The issue is one I don't even think people on both sides fully understand. And I believe there are many moderate to even left leaning folks that feel very uncomfortable about the topic. I'm wondering if Trump thought he was being clever, and thought he could play to those fears, win some moderates, and distract at the same time?

Now to the facts: transgender in the US military, what does this really mean?

Are these people who are in transition? And is the discussion of costs regarding the treatment medicine that is required?

Are there men and women serving who aren't in transition, but just identify as the sex opposite of their anatomy?
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:17 PM   #3
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my experience is with the canadian military, but at the time (5-10 years ago) the treatments and surgery were not covered. there was one female-to-male clerk in our unit (of about 500), he identified as such but was not transitioning. everybody referred to him by male pronouns and he always looked/dressed in a masculine way and just generally was very masculine despite still being female. he was very open about who he was and willing to talk about it with anyone who asked, he was just another one of the guys as far as everyone else was concerned. if anyone tried to talk shit about him behind his back it was shut down pretty quickly. i have no idea if he ended up having surgery since the time i got out (2012), at the time if anyone asked if he planned on it the answer was always "i *think* so, if it ever gets covered".

the cost of covering transition surgery for the vanishingly small number of trans troops is far less than covering the women who join and finish basic training then spend the rest of their contract collecting full benefits and salary having a kid every year and staying on mat leave, or the guys who chronically fake medical issues to get on light duties or medication they don't need so that they never have to do anything more stressful than sit around in a classroom and watch movies all day.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:12 PM   #4
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The US military spends something like 15 times the amount of money on Viagra than they do on trans people.

I thought the tweets were utterly sickening. Of all the things he's said and done, it's up the with the very, very worst if you ask me.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:27 PM   #5
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There are plenty of people who do that thing where at a distance they're "okay" with transgender people, but usually add a caveat like "just as long as they don't try to trick me/don't tell me about it." As if trans people are going around introducing themselves like "hi i'm so and so and i'm trans," or actively trying to put themselves in danger by seducing people and fooling them into having sex with someone with the opposite genitals than they normally prefer to have sex with (hint: it's like the thing where guys are supposedly dressing up as women to go rape in bathrooms--no one is doing these things).

I'm assuming your title is unintentionally condescending, but man do I hate the way it assumes anyone coming in here a) doesn't know anyone trans b) isn't trans themselves. I know it doesn't do anything productive to tell you to fuck off with your obnoxious title and demand dieman change it, but man does it rub me the wrong way. It means you don't feel the gender you were biologically born as feels right. Me for example, if I put on a dress and have people refer to me with female pronouns, it feels inaccurate. I feel like I'm in drag, I feel like I'm a man in a dress despite being biologically female. I've only been on testosterone for about a month and a half, and I'm dying to learn to hate shaving, but then again not all trans people feel the same as me. And this is totally separate from sexual orientation. There are trans individuals who identify as gay, straight, bisexual, asexual, and any of the other extra new terms.

I don't specifically know any trans service members. I'd assume it's like trans people existing in any walk of life, where there are some who are in the closet, people like the guy dave mentioned, others who have had surgery and been on hormone replacement therapy for years, and everyone in between.

I saw an article suggesting that Hartzler in Missouri was threatening to withdraw support for the bullshit wall if Trump didn't throw her an anti-lgbt bone and this is how he decided to do it.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:38 PM   #6
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Had no idea IWB - agree the title made me a bit uncomfortable too. All the best, hope you are treated with decency by all as deserved
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by IWasBored View Post
I saw an article suggesting that Hartzler in Missouri was threatening to withdraw support for the bullshit wall if Trump didn't throw her an anti-lgbt bone and this is how he decided to do it.
If that's true, that just adds to the overall blech of Trump's actions. Ugh.

Great post in general, too. I appreciate your sharing your own story with everyone, and echo cobl's sentiments about being treated with the respect and decency you deserve.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:55 PM   #8
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Had no idea IWB - agree the title made me a bit uncomfortable too. All the best, hope you are treated with decency by all as deserved

Thanks, I've got it pretty good here. A lot of me moving from the east coast to Denver had to do with that. Denver is amazing. I'm so beginner in the process I'm waiting on FBI background checks and shit to get
my name/gender markers changed legally and all, but the handful of people at work who know were amazing about it and I couldn't have asked for better.

Didn't mean to derail the thread with personal shit, this just hits extremely close to home.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:18 PM   #9
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I would argue that this thread is the PERFECT place for your personal stuff, so thank you for sharing. :-)
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:28 PM   #10
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Agreed. I think we could use a lot more of hearing people's personal stories in general in regards to any big issue that's being debated out there.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:45 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by IWasBored View Post
There are plenty of people who do that thing where at a distance they're "okay" with transgender people, but usually add a caveat like "just as long as they don't try to trick me/don't tell me about it." As if trans people are going around introducing themselves like "hi i'm so and so and i'm trans," or actively trying to put themselves in danger by seducing people and fooling them into having sex with someone with the opposite genitals than they normally prefer to have sex with (hint: it's like the thing where guys are supposedly dressing up as women to go rape in bathrooms--no one is doing these things).

I'm assuming your title is unintentionally condescending, but man do I hate the way it assumes anyone coming in here a) doesn't know anyone trans b) isn't trans themselves. I know it doesn't do anything productive to tell you to fuck off with your obnoxious title and demand dieman change it, but man does it rub me the wrong way. It means you don't feel the gender you were biologically born as feels right. Me for example, if I put on a dress and have people refer to me with female pronouns, it feels inaccurate. I feel like I'm in drag, I feel like I'm a man in a dress despite being biologically female. I've only been on testosterone for about a month and a half, and I'm dying to learn to hate shaving, but then again not all trans people feel the same as me. And this is totally separate from sexual orientation. There are trans individuals who identify as gay, straight, bisexual, asexual, and any of the other extra new terms.

I don't specifically know any trans service members. I'd assume it's like trans people existing in any walk of life, where there are some who are in the closet, people like the guy dave mentioned, others who have had surgery and been on hormone replacement therapy for years, and everyone in between.

I saw an article suggesting that Hartzler in Missouri was threatening to withdraw support for the bullshit wall if Trump didn't throw her an anti-lgbt bone and this is how he decided to do it.


I apologize if the title offended you, I truly do. AND I completely appreciate your honesty and input.

The title was done on purpose; the intention was not to offend those that are transgender, but to address those that are very vocal about it without understanding it.

My Facebook feed today was bombarded with absolutely absurd and oblivious posts regarding the subject of Orange's tweet. And some of them by Interferencers, and I try really hard not to discuss politics or social issues there, so my response was this thread. I see a lot of people spewing shit, but not even understanding what it means.

So, I tried to create this thread to help, once again I apologize if the title upset you.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:52 PM   #12
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I would argue that this thread is the PERFECT place for your personal stuff, so thank you for sharing. :-)


:like:
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:38 PM   #13
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Transgender- do you know what it means?

Thanks for sharing that IWB

I'm glad to hear you are liking Denver. It's one of the cities in the West I've considered relocating to.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:57 PM   #14
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Transgender- do you know what it means?

I've worked in military hospitals in all three branches. I know of female soldiers who got free breast implants because the plastic surgeons are required to do a certain number of various procedures to keep their credentials. I imagine the same could be true for gender reassignment surgery.

Getting the military to pay for elective hormone therapy might be another matter, though.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:36 AM   #15
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I apologize if the title offended you, I truly do. AND I completely appreciate your honesty and input.

The title was done on purpose; the intention was not to offend those that are transgender, but to address those that are very vocal about it without understanding it.

My Facebook feed today was bombarded with absolutely absurd and oblivious posts regarding the subject of Orange's tweet. And some of them by Interferencers, and I try really hard not to discuss politics or social issues there, so my response was this thread. I see a lot of people spewing shit, but not even understanding what it means.

So, I tried to create this thread to help, once again I apologize if the title upset you.


Offended or upset is pretty strong. More like a combination of aggravated by lip service, and it also reads with an air of smugness. I don't like it, but I'm not offended (and the same could be said for when I tried to get angry at beal in the other thread yesterday). It's irritation with people who are like "I stand with trans service people" But it's a far cry from what the people on your feed are saying. It's miles from when I was a kid and that Boys Don't Cry movie was the only time I'd heard of a trans guy (and we know how that story ends). Going from being sure that if I ever said anything that I'd get murdered, to being able to be cynical about most "allies" support not extending past a reblog or repost, that is progress. If I have time to be angry at people who say they respect my right to be who I want to be but also can't be bothered to use the correct pronouns for trans individuals when they're not in the room, things have gotten a bit better. I quit listening to a podcast that had Kristen Beck (whose face I'm sure a lot of people have been seeing in reposted social media the last two days) on to promote her documentary a year or two back, but less than a week removed from that episode go on record saying they think being trans is weird and not normal. Now I don't think these are people who actually hold any ill will towards anyone who's trans, nor do I take much stock in the opinions of comedians or mma fighters. But that's the kind of far away pseudo-support I'm talking about. And all the "this is just a distraction to make people forget about the real issue that are Russia and Sessions," sounds a lot like "Don't worry about this stuff, there's bigger issues that also affect us cis straight people too and those are more important."


edit: fucking phone has this weird obsession with making spontaneous line breaks.
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