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Old 10-28-2008, 08:02 PM   #16
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I’m not American so obviously not voting and not with any right to weigh into this thread really, but with that distance and I guess so much of it not meaning anything to me (no offence and good luck to you all, but I don’t really care how you’re taxed) this has been really fascinating to watch more in a campaign as play-by-play sport way. McCain has boned it at every turn. Not just made mistakes here and there, but really just run a terrible campaign in every imaginable way. In that sense, compared to the always calm, always steady, always focused Obama campaign, McCain certainly ‘deserves’ to lose.

That surely doesn’t mean anything to Obama supporters, it should effect the independents (but they of course have leanings, no-one is truly smack in the middle), but what I’m really surprised with is how his campaign is not effecting the intelligent end of conservatives more blatantly, and it might still. Could there be a sort of reverse Bradley effect? There are plenty of prominent conservatives who are clearly not of the batshit crazy and ignorant Limbaugh wing very publicly jumping ship, but I wonder if there will be plenty of ‘regular’ conservatives out there who are telling their equally conservative peer groups (or pollsters) that they’re voting McCain, but then in the privacy of the booth, will go with Obama.

Maybe my estimation is off, but if I were an American conservative I’d be livid at the two ultra simplistic caricatures of American conservatives that the McCain campaign has promoted as it’s cheerleaders. Sarah the Hockey Mom and Joe the Plumber. It should say a lot – this is the level of respect they have for you. It’s got to be offensive to you if you even have half a brain up there. If you want conservative ideas to be taken seriously and given respect, this has been probably the worst possible campaign for you. The stereotype that says US conservatives are nothing but backwards ignoramuses is just being reinforced tenfold by this campaign.

I mean, Joe the Plumber on Foreign Policy. Seriously. Even Fox pushed back on it. Check the Shepherd Smith quote at the end. Frightening indeed, and surely – surely – this treatment has got to seriously offend the intelligent end of conservatives, even if they don’t like to admit openly.

Quote:
Five minutes with Joe The Plumber had Shepard Smith so frustrated that the Fox anchor felt compelled to issue a disclaimer, immediately following the segment, pushing back on any notion that Obama would mean the "death of Israel," saying: "I just want to make this 100 percent perfectly clear -- Barack Obama has said repeatedly and demonstrated repeatedly that Israel will always be a friend of the United States, no matter what happens once he becomes President of the United States. His words." Smith later added, "The rest of it -- man...some things -- it just gets frightening sometimes. We'll be right back."
YouTube - Fox's Shep Smith vs. Joe the Plumber
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:37 PM   #17
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The risk of inviting loonies onto the circular talk express.
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Old 10-28-2008, 08:53 PM   #18
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Three reasons for voting for Obama:

1---The past eight years.
2---A person who actually inspires me (and doesn't fiil me with rage)
3---His Tax Plan
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:41 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by coolian2 View Post
Helen Clark:

1. Simply don't trust John Key - a history of flip flopping and sheer lies, from himself and the party

2. Lesser of two evils, while this Labour government isn't the ever, they've not broken the country, which is what we need at the moment.

3. I still don't trust John Key. Big tax cuts when we can't even afford the little tax cuts we're getting, onya douchebag.



Oh, your election. Never mind me.
I'd just like to take a moment to agree wholeheartedly here.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:46 PM   #20
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After hearing Joe's responses to Smith's questions, I would not be surprised in the slightest if it comes out that Joe was paid from day one, when he first met Obama, to shill for the Republican campaign.

Smith: "Now Joe, do you know any of Barack Obama's positions on Israel?"

Joe: "Now look, Shepherd, I'd love to help you out with some answers, but I'm not going to. Let the people go out and find out."


Uh huh.

Right.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:17 PM   #21
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this Labour government isn't the ever
I don't even know what I meant here. I guess I meant to say best ever.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:28 AM   #22
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obama

1. he'll get us out of iraq

2. mccain's run a terrible campaign, which is disapointing, and is 8 years too late.

3. bloomberg didn't run


i feel mccain could be an okay president... obama could be one of the greatest presidents we've ever had or an absolute disaster. either way is okay with me, 'cause frankly if a 4 year republican disaster is followed by a 4 year democrat disaster perhaps maybe we'll finally have enough common sense to elect a third party candidate.

a man can dream, can't he?

Wow, this coming from the Bush supporter of 04.
I guess miracles do happen.
Go on wit yo bad self.......
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:05 AM   #23
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Obama

- He's inspired so many people to get involved, hopefully that'll continue if he's elected.
- He'll get us out of Iraq
- He didn't choose some lipstick wearing pitbull hockey mom as his running mate to try and up his chances with the female population
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:37 PM   #24
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Wow, this coming from the Bush supporter of 04.
I guess miracles do happen.
Go on wit yo bad self.......
i honestly don't believe things would be any different if that douche kerry had won. so in that way, i don't regret my vote.

i think bush had a tremendous opportunity post 9/11 and even on into 2004... think of it as if he was a running back, and he beat the first tackler, and he's got nothing but daylight in front of him, but instead of taking the ball into the endzone, he trips, falls down, fumbles, and the other team picks it up and runs it in.

that's the last 4 years of the bush presidency in my eyes.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:42 PM   #25
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I think that things would be worse in Iraq if Kerry had won, a first term president would not have pursued a surge policy, although the good elements of Bush's second term are mainly solving problems that started in his first term I think it is important.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:40 PM   #26
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Obama

1) Supreme court nominations
2) Best chance to get this deficit spending under control.
3) Best chance of undoing the damage to our constitution and civil rights that the last 8 years have done.

Bonus: Best chance of earning back some of the respect we lost from the rest of the world.


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... think of it as if he was a running back, and he beat the first tackler, and he's got nothing but daylight in front of him, but instead of taking the ball into the endzone, he trips, falls down, fumbles, and the other team picks it up and runs it in.

that's the last 4 years of the bush presidency in my eyes.
All that and McCain's campaign, too.

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Obama

- He's inspired so many people to get involved, hopefully that'll continue if he's elected.
- He'll get us out of Iraq
- He didn't choose some lipstick wearing pitbull hockey mom as his running mate to try and up his chances with the female population

President Palin. Can you imagine?
McCain wouldn't make it through his term, I'd venture to say, not even the first year. (and I don't wish anything harmful against him)
But, I've watched the Presidential toll of the Carter, Regan,Regan, Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush,Bush, administrations
The pressure is daunting.
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:10 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
i honestly don't believe things would be any different if that douche kerry had won. so in that way, i don't regret my vote.

i think bush had a tremendous opportunity post 9/11 and even on into 2004... think of it as if he was a running back, and he beat the first tackler, and he's got nothing but daylight in front of him, but instead of taking the ball into the endzone, he trips, falls down, fumbles, and the other team picks it up and runs it in.

that's the last 4 years of the bush presidency in my eyes.


The force is strong with this one.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:26 AM   #28
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I think that things would be worse in Iraq if Kerry had won, a first term president would not have pursued a surge policy, although the good elements of Bush's second term are mainly solving problems that started in his first term I think it is important.


or, the elimination of Rumsfeld in 2004 might have made a much bigger difference 2 years earlier and we might never have had the apocolyptic escalation of violence that we did in 2006/7.

it wasn't until the removal of Rumsfeld and replacing him with the far more moderate Gates -- someone whom, i'm willing to bet, Obama might keep on -- that Iraq turned any sort of corner or any sort of reasonable policy was ever pursued, and you're assuming that "the surge" as we understand it was the only policy that could have ever been pursued.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:31 AM   #29
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or, the elimination of Rumsfeld in 2004 might have made a much bigger difference 2 years earlier and we might never have had the apocolyptic escalation of violence that we did in 2006/7.

it wasn't until the removal of Rumsfeld and replacing him with the far more moderate Gates -- someone whom, i'm willing to bet, Obama might keep on -- that Iraq turned any sort of corner or any sort of reasonable policy was ever pursued, and you're assuming that "the surge" as we understand it was the only policy that could have ever been pursued.
+1.

Rumsfeld should be ...........
well, imagine it; I'm afraid to write anything in case my computer's bugged.....
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:58 PM   #30
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-Libertarian

-Almost all current taxes are unconstitutional

-"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything away from you." ~Barry Goldwater
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