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Old 11-30-2009, 08:39 AM   #16
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Well. Um. The awful, evil obese person is also a, er, tax payer, are they not? They are also contributing to the common pool, are they not? Or does that not count?
Well herein lies the rub. The healthy often pay more than they use, while the sick often contribute less than they use. So we're covering for those that are sick, that's how insurance works. But when it's someone who is sick due to their own lack of trying, I can see where some folks feel cheated. That's all.
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Old 11-30-2009, 08:48 AM   #17
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what can I say, the world isn't always fair. It's a can of worms that you'd want to be very careful about opening.

Except not really, because it already is open. Which is why threads like this crop up with increasing frequency. This or something similar.
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Old 11-30-2009, 10:29 AM   #18
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I think that's ridiculous. They're adults not kids-and they're paying hefty sums to go there.

The size of your body has nothing to do with what's going on in your brain and your ability to learn and use that brain wisely and well. Not to mention the fact that, in some cases, weight and BMI is controlled by factors that are beyond someone's control-to a greater or lesser extent but it is all the same.

Are they preventing students who drink or do drugs or smoke from graduating unless they get that under control?
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Old 11-30-2009, 12:19 PM   #19
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Is this a course? I don't understand how it works. Is it some sort of mandatory activity that you get course credits for? I had courses that required volunteer work in college, and if I didn't do it, I failed. If you knew in 2006 that you had to do this, and it's now 3 years later and you haven't done it, well, that's on you. You had 3 years to do some walking.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:00 PM   #20
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Is this a course? I don't understand how it works. Is it some sort of mandatory activity that you get course credits for? I had courses that required volunteer work in college, and if I didn't do it, I failed. If you knew in 2006 that you had to do this, and it's now 3 years later and you haven't done it, well, that's on you. You had 3 years to do some walking.
I agree. All schools have their own requirements and that's really all it boils down to. I had to take three different phys ed classes to graduate. We also had to complete a pretty extensive core (which most people were still working on in their third year) which included the "CCE" (cross cultural engagement) requirement which basically means you have to study off campus at some point. If people can't afford that or don't want to do it, then they have to do extra work to meet that requirement or they can go to a different school.

I also know of people that were excused or put on probation because of health reasons and not taking care of themselves.

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Are they preventing students who drink or do drugs or smoke from graduating unless they get that under control?
Where I went, yes. If you were caught doing certain things then you had to do these "AA" type classes if you wanted to stick around. Even stuff that is legal (like drinking off campus or having porn on your computer) was subject to this.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:11 PM   #21
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It will be cheaper taxes for everyone if we don't have a nation full of fatties once Universal Health Care is forced upon us-because the tax payers have to pay higher taxes incurred by higher health costs due to general health conditions caused by behaviors of fatties.

This is the reasoning behind this new mindset-in which I do not agree.

You wanted it folks, congratulations-you own it.


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Old 11-30-2009, 01:31 PM   #22
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I can think of some healthier people than me who are bigger in terms of weight, or probably have a higher BMI. I just have a naturally high metabolism, so I'm smaller, but they can run farther and faster than I can. If it's about fitness, it shouldn't be about BMI, but rather whether they're able to complete some sort of fitness requirement (a series of physical tests, maybe).

And it's easy to tell someone to just go to another school, but what if they can't afford to live away from home, and this university is nearest to them? What if they have a specialized program that they need to go to this school? What if they have a scholarship to this school?


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"And we are responsible for their total well-being, not just the academic, but the emotional and psychological state of our students."
Should someone not graduate if they are suffering with depression? (I sort of feel that that might be a leap in logic, but I'll throw it out there anyway..)
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:44 PM   #23
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It will be cheaper taxes for everyone if we don't have a nation full of fatties once Universal Health Care is forced upon us-because the tax payers have to pay higher taxes incurred by higher health costs due to general health conditions caused by behaviors of fatties.
You really don't understand the current system of healthcare do you?

This is happening now, don't try and pretend this has anything to do with social medicine.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:46 PM   #24
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This is happening now
And it's going to get worse if you guys have your way.

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Old 11-30-2009, 01:48 PM   #25
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You've shown such an informed understanding of healthcare, I'm sure we'll all take this into consideration...
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:53 PM   #26
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I think it largely depends on when this was imposed on them.

For example, if you apply to a university which has such a requirement and you accept your offer with that knowledge, then that's informed consent and you should have no grounds for complaint later. But if this is something that was sprung on the students halfway through their studies, then I would say it is not what they bargained for; rather it was imposed on them.

If this school wishes to continue on with this program, they should clearly state that to all high school applicants.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:53 PM   #27
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The state of Pennsylvania is one of the few states left in the US that requires physical education to be taken every year of school up through high school. Lincoln University is a state-funded school in PA, and I'm wondering if physical education is required at that level as well. I go to a state university in PA, and I have a physical education requirement to graduate.
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:56 PM   #28
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At my university you had to take 4 PE courses and one health class in order to graduate. It was no big deal to me. I looked at it as an easy A.
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:16 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by diamond View Post
It will be cheaper taxes for everyone if we don't have a nation full of fatties once Universal Health Care is forced upon us-because the tax payers have to pay higher taxes incurred by higher health costs due to general health conditions caused by behaviors of fatties.

This is the reasoning behind this new mindset-in which I do not agree.

You wanted it folks, congratulations-you own it.


<>
This study shows both smokers and the obese actually cost less over the course of their lives to treat than do thin, non-smokers.

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Preventing obesity and smoking can save lives, but it does not save money, according to a new report.

It costs more to care for healthy people who live years longer, according to a Dutch study that counters the common perception that preventing obesity would save governments millions of dollars.

"It was a small surprise," said Pieter van Baal, an economist at the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment in the Netherlands, who led the study. "But it also makes sense. If you live longer, then you cost the health system more."

In a paper published online Monday in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal, Dutch researchers found that the health costs of thin and healthy people in adulthood are more expensive than those of either fat people or smokers.

Van Baal and colleagues created a model to simulate lifetime health costs for three groups of 1,000 people: the "healthy-living" group (thin and nonsmoking), obese people, and smokers. The model relied on "cost of illness" data and disease prevalence in the Netherlands in 2003.

The researchers found that from age 20 to 56, obese people racked up the most expensive health costs. But because both the smokers and the obese people died sooner than the healthy group, it cost less to treat them in the long run.

On average, healthy people lived 84 years. Smokers lived about 77 years and obese people lived about 80 years. Smokers and obese people tended to have more heart disease than the healthy people.

Cancer incidence, except for lung cancer, was the same in all three groups. Obese people had the most diabetes, and healthy people had the most strokes. Ultimately, the thin and healthy group cost the most, about $417,000, from age 20 on.

The cost of care for obese people was $371,000, and for smokers, about $326,000.

The results counter the common perception that preventing obesity will save health systems worldwide millions of dollars.

"This throws a bucket of cold water onto the idea that obesity is going to cost trillions of dollars," said Patrick Basham, a professor of health politics at Johns Hopkins University who was unconnected to the study. He said that government projections about obesity costs are frequently based on guesswork, political agendas and changing science.

"If we're going to worry about the future of obesity, we should stop worrying about its financial impact," he said.

Obesity experts said that fighting the epidemic is about more than just saving money.

"The benefits of obesity prevention may not be seen immediately in terms of cost savings in tomorrow's budget, but there are long-term gains," said Neville Rigby, spokesman for the International Association for the Study of Obesity. "These are often immeasurable when it comes to people living longer and healthier lives."

Van Baal described the paper as "a bookkeeping exercise" and said that governments should recognize that successful smoking and obesity prevention programs mean that people will have a higher chance of dying of something more expensive later in life.

"Lung cancer is a cheap disease to treat because people don't survive very long," van Baal said. "But if they are old enough to get Alzheimer's one day, they may survive longer and cost more."

The study, paid for by the Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sports, did not take into account other potential costs of obesity and smoking, such as lost economic productivity or social costs.

"We are not recommending that governments stop trying to prevent obesity," van Baal said. "But they should do it for the right reasons."
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Old 11-30-2009, 02:26 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by diamond View Post
It will be cheaper taxes for everyone if we don't have a nation full of fatties once Universal Health Care is forced upon us-because the tax payers have to pay higher taxes incurred by higher health costs due to general health conditions caused by behaviors of fatties.

This is the reasoning behind this new mindset-in which I do not agree.

You wanted it folks, congratulations-you own it.


<>
Do you try to post things that sound stupid on purpose?

I mean, surely if you had spent 1.2 seconds of thought before replying you'd have realized that you live in the FATTEST nation on earth, one that is currently FATTER than EVERY SINGLE country that has SOCIALIZED healthcare.
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