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Old 02-16-2010, 01:05 PM   #16
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Now I haven't seen Kevin Smith in awhile, but he said he was able to lower both armrests, so I'm not sure what exactly is going on...
he'd already purchased an extra seat because he was a "customer of size". he was also trying to fly stand by, presumably to get to his destination earlier. southwest policy is that if a "customer of size" travels stand by and has had to go through buying an extra ticket, then there need to be two open seats on the flight he's traveling on. they boarded him, realised their mistake and yanked him. a bit senseless given there didn't otherwise seem to be a problem.


incidentally, i'm not overweight but do have broad shoulders. should i have to pay extra because my shoulders spill over on tighter planes? this kind of thing is why there are a few airlines i refuse to fly now, including air new zealand. you can't pack more seats across in your planes and then be surprised when the ever-growing population of the modern world can't squeeze in.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:11 PM   #17
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Doesn't really matter what operators of a stadium do. It's up to them if they charge extra or not. Further, the lost revenue for an airline is very likely to be greater than for a stadium owner.
I guess with an increasing reight of overweight or obese people in the developed nations, where they sometimes make up to 50% or more, most businesses will have to look how they can adjust. Of course, statistics could help, in that e.g. airlines would analyse how many people, on average, will take a flight that need more than just the usual space, and then arrange their seating accordingly.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:12 PM   #18
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Of course, statistics could help, in that e.g. airlines would analyse how many people, on average, will take a flight that need more than just the usual space, and then arrange their seating accordingly.
could take the air france/klm path - put 10 seats abreast on a particular type of plane when the industry standard is 9 abreast and then charge passengers for an extra seat. it's genius!
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:15 PM   #19
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you can't pack more seats across in your planes and then be surprised when the ever-growing population of the modern world can't squeeze in.
But you can try.

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could take the air france/klm path - put 10 seats abreast on a particular type of plane when the industry standard is 9 abreast and then charge passengers for an extra seat. it's genius!
I always wonder who can afford KLM anyway. But yes, they never run out of ideas how to make more bucks.
In general, I can understand an airline that is charging twice if you take up room for two people. But of course understanding ends when the airlines then try to trick their customers with such measures.
And here again, with more people being "of size" it will get increasingly harder for airlines to justify their procedures.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:24 PM   #20
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This clip is from the Airline show that was on A&E. This episode addresses the too fat to fly.

YouTube - Airline TV Show S1E11 You Must Be Kidding? (2/3)
This show gets me stressed out
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:31 PM   #21
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:32 PM   #22
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What about when you go to a concert or a sporting event and the person next to you "spills over"-they don't make people buy two seats and just like an airplane, you can't move if there aren't available seats (unlike a plane even if there are available seats, for ticketed events usually they won't let you move). That has happened to me and it's very uncomfortable, especially in an old ballpark with very small seats and a very small amount of room. I suppose maybe you could go to someone and tell them that you're next to a large person and you need to move, but I've never done that. I guess it's not something I feel comfortable doing. They don't make people buy two seats in those situations-and you are trapped there sometimes just like you are on a plane.
Not sure about ballparks but arenas and stadiums have seats set aside for this type of thing...
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:34 PM   #23
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I've never been to one that has that, maybe it's just newer parks. I have long legs too so luckily they don't make me buy an extra seat for them..It's very uncomfortable to not have enough leg room (including on a plane) but I deal with it.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:44 PM   #24
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he'd already purchased an extra seat because he was a "customer of size". he was also trying to fly stand by, presumably to get to his destination earlier. southwest policy is that if a "customer of size" travels stand by and has had to go through buying an extra ticket, then there need to be two open seats on the flight he's traveling on. they boarded him, realised their mistake and yanked him. a bit senseless given there didn't otherwise seem to be a problem.
According to everything I've heard from him, he didn't buy two seats because of his size (and I listened to the entire podcast, all 90+ minutes of it), he bought two seats because 1) he prefers to have some buffer area around him, rather than being close to people - his choice, in other words, and 2) because he can afford to do this.

He was on standby for a flight which only had one other seat available. The ticketing agent and other staff in the area were well aware of his size before issuing him the ticket. His issue was that they let him seat himself in the one seat they offered him, and then came to remove him from the plane. Even when the two ladies sitting on each side of him said they were fine with him sitting there.

He claims that he's flown their airline many times in the past with only one seat, and it's never been an issue. He also claims that he can get his armrests down, and buckle up without an extender.

The other major thing he took issue with is that on the later flight they finally did get him on, one that did have two seats for him, there was a large woman sitting next to his empty seat, and before take-off, a flight attendant came up and asked the woman to follow her. Later in the flight, the woman told him that the flight attendant took her aside and suggested to her that in the future, she might think about purchasing two seats. He felt that this was needless cruelty, given that the woman was sitting next to his empty seat, and not bothering anyone. He has a point. Staff should not be able to arbitrarily hassle customers once they're seated, buckled in and with armrests down. There should be a standard applied to everyone, and they should apply it before boarding, period. There's no need to embarrass people like that. Asshats.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:50 PM   #25
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According to everything I've heard from him, he didn't buy two seats because of his size (and I listened to the entire podcast, all 90+ minutes of it), he bought two seats because 1) he prefers to have some buffer area around him, rather than being close to people - his choice, in other words, and 2) because he can afford to do this.

He was on standby for a flight which only had one other seat available. The ticketing agent and other staff in the area were well aware of his size before issuing him the ticket. His issue was that they let him seat himself in the one seat they offered him, and then came to remove him from the plane. Even when the two ladies sitting on each side of him said they were fine with him sitting there.

He claims that he's flown their airline many times in the past with only one seat, and it's never been an issue. He also claims that he can get his armrests down, and buckle up without an extender.

The other major thing he took issue with is that on the later flight they finally did get him on, one that did have two seats for him, there was a large woman sitting next to his empty seat, and before take-off, a flight attendant came up and asked the woman to follow her. Later in the flight, the woman told him that the flight attendant took her aside and suggested to her that in the future, she might think about purchasing two seats. He felt that this was needless cruelty, given that the woman was sitting next to his empty seat, and not bothering anyone. He has a point. Staff should not be able to arbitrarily hassle customers once they're seated, buckled in and with armrests down. There should be a standard applied to everyone, and they should apply it before boarding, period. There's no need to embarrass people like that. Asshats.
ah, ok. i probably also should have noted that my post was (obviously) completely second hand information.

either way, southwest screwed up. and ultimately, i totally agree with your post.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:53 PM   #26
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NY Post

Flier: I was water deboarded

By LEONARD GREENE

Last Updated: 12:39 PM, February 16, 2010

It wasn't what the doctor ordered.

A Manhattan surgeon said he was booted off a plane at La Guardia Airport yesterday after he asked for water for his pregnant wife when the cabin overheated.

Mitchell Roslin, of Lenox Hill Hospital, said he, his family and about 200 other passengers were stuck on the tarmac for more than two hours after the Spirit Airlines plane experienced engine trouble that made it difficult to ventilate the cabin.

Roslin -- who was traveling to Fort Lauderdale, Fla., with his two kids and seven-months-pregnant wife -- said passengers weren't allowed to leave the plane and were refused water.

Flight attendants told him that it was "against corporate policy" to give out water before the plane took off and that they did not have "company approval," Roslin said.

When Roslin persisted, he was asked to leave the plane, he said. His wife, their son, 9, and daughter, 11, got off with him.

He blasted the discount airline, saying, "I guess you get what you pay for.

"I refuse to accept that people can't have a moral compass to give out water."

Spirit did not return a call for comment.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:02 PM   #27
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According to everything I've heard from him, he didn't buy two seats because of his size (and I listened to the entire podcast, all 90+ minutes of it), he bought two seats because 1) he prefers to have some buffer area around him, rather than being close to people - his choice, in other words, and 2) because he can afford to do this.

He was on standby for a flight which only had one other seat available. The ticketing agent and other staff in the area were well aware of his size before issuing him the ticket. His issue was that they let him seat himself in the one seat they offered him, and then came to remove him from the plane. Even when the two ladies sitting on each side of him said they were fine with him sitting there.

He claims that he's flown their airline many times in the past with only one seat, and it's never been an issue. He also claims that he can get his armrests down, and buckle up without an extender.

The other major thing he took issue with is that on the later flight they finally did get him on, one that did have two seats for him, there was a large woman sitting next to his empty seat, and before take-off, a flight attendant came up and asked the woman to follow her. Later in the flight, the woman told him that the flight attendant took her aside and suggested to her that in the future, she might think about purchasing two seats. He felt that this was needless cruelty, given that the woman was sitting next to his empty seat, and not bothering anyone. He has a point. Staff should not be able to arbitrarily hassle customers once they're seated, buckled in and with armrests down. There should be a standard applied to everyone, and they should apply it before boarding, period. There's no need to embarrass people like that. Asshats.
I question a lot of the points in your post.

Since they came from Kevin Smith himself. I don't believe he is capable of being objective in relating his facts. I listened to and read some of his remarks, there is a lot of emotion and victim-hood coming through.
The fact that he requested to fly standby on a flight he did not buy a ticket for weakens his whole argument.

Getting the armrest down does not mean he was not encroaching 6 inches, or some other significant amount, over into the 17-18 inches in the next seat.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:02 PM   #28
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ah, ok. i probably also should have noted that my post was (obviously) completely second hand information.

either way, southwest screwed up. and ultimately, i totally agree with your post.
I just wanted to mention what came from him, as opposed to what's being reported.

I can't believe how badly the media has been fucking this up, when the story is right there for them to hear, from his own mouth. Have they become that lazy that they can't report facts?? I suppose that aspect of it angers me as much as the initial situation does. It's like one media outlet will pick up a factually incorrect story, and the rest of them run with it, sheep-like, without even fact-checking. Unbelievable. I watched the same thing happen last week with a U2 story, too, something that was easily fact-checkable, and I called a reporter on it in his blog. Idiots.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:04 PM   #29
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I question a lot of the points in your post.

Since they came from Kevin Smith himself. I don't believe he is capable of being objective in relating his facts. I listened to and read some of his remarks, there is a lot of emotion and victim-hood coming through.
The fact that he requested to fly standby on a flight he did not buy a ticket for weakens his whole argument.

Getting the armrest down does not mean he was not encroaching 6 inches, or some other significant amount, over into the 17-18 inches in the next seat.
Oh, c'mon, how does flying standby weaken the argument? And what possible justification can they have in yanking him when he's seated, and when his seatmates have said he's fine? And why has the airline allowed him to fly every other time (including several times the week before) with no problem? He regularly flies that airline.

Listen to the podcast, and then talk to me.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
Doesn't really matter what operators of a stadium do. It's up to them if they charge extra or not. Further, the lost revenue for an airline is very likely to be greater than for a stadium owner.
I guess with an increasing reight of overweight or obese people in the developed nations, where they sometimes make up to 50% or more, most businesses will have to look how they can adjust. Of course, statistics could help, in that e.g. airlines would analyse how many people, on average, will take a flight that need more than just the usual space, and then arrange their seating accordingly.
It is a somewhat complicated issue.

Does a larger person get to argue that they should be allowed a larger 'carry on' bag because their clothing, shoes, etc are larger than the average, that they need to have on their 2 day business trip.


Does a person that is larger get plate of food that is twice as big because that is what they require?
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