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Old 05-08-2009, 07:37 PM   #16
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But, I think the "fat is a choice" was definately a flippant remark addressing the BSA stance on homosexuals.
Partially, but I meant that overeating is a choice people make.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:44 PM   #17
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Partially, but I meant that overeating is a choice people make.
To be honest, I don't know for certainty...

I don't think it's always OVEReating, but just ignorant of what they are eating.

But like I said before, I think there are several reasons for being obese, and many are voluntary.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:50 PM   #18
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I don't think it's always OVEReating, but just ignorant of what they are eating.
It's overeating in most cases.

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But like I said before, I think there are several reasons for being obese, and many are voluntary.
Agreed.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:52 PM   #19
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Bad, overprocessed food and too much of it, no physical activity, cities organized into sprawling subdivisions so nobody can walk anywhere, snacking on high calorie foods all day long, kids having TVs in bedrooms with video games at the age of 5 instead of being outside, etc, etc.

I grew up in Europe and I can honestly remember 2 "fat" kids in my class at school, and both of them had one parent who was not obese, but was probably close to it. I think that genetics likely did play a significant role there. My brother is a teacher now and he says half the kids are fat, that's certainly a stunning difference, and one that can be attributed largely to personal choices.
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Old 05-09-2009, 01:08 PM   #20
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I'm not being ironic at all. Not everyone who is fat has an eating disorder. Most of them are just fat because they eat too much food.
Agreed. I watched Supersize me, and heard stories from many many people who went to the US. It shocked me how HUGE your portions are, the sodas(our large isn't even close to the US small!) and that kind of stuff. It's one part of the problem how BIG the portions are, another is the kind of food. I'm not saying we don't eat fast food over here, but I am saying that people don't eat it every day or even every week here.


And Deep, I more meant that it's a good example to kids that if you are that fat, you can't go on hikes and such because it's a health risk. That way it's more a reminder for kids that 'If I want to do this at later age, I must not get fat'. That kinda thing.
Ofcourse these fat people can drive their kids and whatnot, it's just that they don't do the stuff that's dangerous for them. What an impact would it have on a child to see a parent of either themselves or their friends get a heart attack in front of them while they're doing some heavy physical stuff?
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Old 05-10-2009, 01:20 AM   #21
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Partially, but I meant that overeating is a choice people make.
But a lot of fat/obese people don't overeat.
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:42 AM   #22
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But a lot of fat/obese people don't overeat.
There are some medical reasons, but most of them do. Do you have statistics?
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Old 05-10-2009, 12:18 PM   #23
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Overeating to blame for U.S. obesity epidemic
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:47 PM   #24
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That someone is overeating to the extent of reaching obesity surely has some grounding in a psychological problem? I realise that American portions are MASSIVE and yes, there is a lot of crap food about, but I think anyone who's that large, whether they want to be or not, has a problem.
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Old 05-10-2009, 04:49 PM   #25
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Of course they have a problem.
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Old 05-10-2009, 08:48 PM   #26
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Some obese people are compulsive overeaters with binge-eating problems, sure, and some have simply been taking in considerably more calories than they need since childhood, which over the course of several decades (particularly when combined with a sedentary lifestyle) can result in obesity by middle age. But if it's medically and legally risky for the Boy Scouts to allow obese people along on excursions (long backpacking trips etc.) to remote areas far from medical assistance, then it's legitimate for them to have these rules, regardless of whether a given obese individual has a bona fide psychological problem or not. I'm not sure this is really a better route than simply leaving it up to the indivduals' doctors to certify them fit (or unfit) for such trips, rather than giving the last word to a number. But at the same time, it doesn't seem in principle outrageous to me for the Scouts to uphold a somewhat higher standard of fitness for people who're going to go on long-distance excursions. (I believe they similarly have a no-smoking policy, for example.) And unlike with an actual disability, those affected by this policy have it within their power to healthfully lose the weight, so as to be able to resume going along on these trips.

I understand deep's objection to a point, though not because I think it likely that children of obese volunteers will see this as their fathers being labeled "defective"--kids are also smart enough to know that being obese isn't good for you and that the weight can be lost, so this isn't like saying, "We think your dad is ugly, so he can't come along." What I could perhaps see being problematic is that this policy might have the effect of pressuring children of obese volunteers into the role of unsolicited 'fitness monitors' for their fathers, in response to some third party's threatened witholding of a desired shared experience. I'm just not sure that's ultimately the Scouts' problem.
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Old 05-10-2009, 09:33 PM   #27
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i think obesity is a complex thing.

we live in a world where you can get gigantic, supersized buckets of Twizzlers at the checkout line in freaking Best Buy. food is everywhere, and it's designed by massive corporations to be addictive, and profit goes up with super-sized portions. there are clear reasons that contribute to why people are more obese today than they were 30 years ago, and as for culpability, it's a complicated thing, imho. yes, we know that bad food makes you fat, we know that it's a matter of calories. but we also live in a world where the food itself is designed to give you the maximum "hit" from fat and sugar and to keep you coming back for more and more and more. we also live in a world where people don't have the time to cook at home, and it's quite easy to pack the kids into the minivan and take them to TGI Fridays than it is to spend an hour preparing a meal when you've just gotten home from work and have been shuttling them around from soccer practice to piano.

so i'm sympathetic, to a degree. it's like we know what we need to do, but i think it's far harder for people to do what it is they need to do when the world has been designed to eek out profit from every last drop of food. add that to the fact that most of human history has been a relentless search for food and shelter. those problems, at least in the West, have been pretty much solved. the result is that we're now surrounded by food, and instinct tells us to eat as much of it as we can because who knows when the next meal was going to be when you were a hunter/gatherer during the last Ice Age.

now, could many people drop weight if they made preparing and eating nutritious food a priority? yes. do i think it would be great for most parents to know something about nutrition? yes. do i think it would be great if cooking at home became more a part of our collective lifestyle? yes.

so, it's like it is our fault that we're so fat, but i blame agribusiness and the food corporations for turning something as basic as food into yet another commodity ruled by the bottom line.

as for the issue -- it seems like leading hikes at that weight is a health issue.
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:35 AM   #28
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I don't know, I feel like the "supersized" excuse sort of undermines the millions of people that are healthy and can eat fast food without becoming morbidly obese. Are healthy people just lucky? Phil and I do eat out quite a bit but we're not blimping out and in fact have both lost a lot of weight without having to crash diet or never being able to enjoy going out. We went to a greasy TexMex chain this weekend but we got a healthy appetizer and shared a meal, I still felt stuffed.

Also I don't like how much emphasis is always placed on food and food choices. What about physical activity?
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:39 AM   #29
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Also I don't like how much emphasis is always placed on food and food choices. What about physical activity?


i was told that weight loss is 70% diet, 30% exercise.

what i find fascinating is going to stay with Memphis's family. these are people who just a generation ago were spending most of their days farming. their food was traditional (and delicious) fried southern fare. and they have home movies that were shot in the 1960s that are amazing to watch today for a variety of reasons, but one of the reasons is that back then everyone was rail thin, despite the fact that they eat the same foods today that they did back then. the difference, i think, is that there's been a movement away from the fresh vegetables grown on your own farm to supermarket vegetables, the ease of fast food, and the fact that today the generation that grew up in those home movies aren't plowing the fields, they are bank tellers and spend 45 minutes commuting to their office jobs each way.
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:34 PM   #30
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There are some medical reasons, but most of them do. Do you have statistics?
LOL @ you asking me for statistics, when you just say that "most do". No I don't have statistics, but it's a far more complicated issue than you think. Not everyone who is overweight, overeats.
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