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Old 02-18-2011, 09:09 AM   #31
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No, these protests are about maintaining the right of association and collective bargaining.

The government can no longer afford compensation packages because they gave all the money to the banks.

Bank bailouts and union busting.

I'm not for the ridiculous examples as you've pointed out, we're dealing with Toronto union employees who have a guaranteed job for life which has zero public support here.

But the right to collective bargaining? Go go go protesters!!!
Exactly. There is no one that denies SS and Medicare need fixing.
Collective bargaining and unionized workers not only must exist in this country, their ranks need to grow. They however do need to be more realistic about what a pension means, but Gov. Walker went about it the wrong way. Unions are good forums to address issues with the group of workers. I don't understand why Walker is so adverse to adult negotiations, unless the intentions were nefarious.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:07 AM   #32
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No, these protests are about maintaining the right of association and collective bargaining.

The government can no longer afford compensation packages because they gave all the money to the banks.

Bank bailouts and union busting.

I'm not for the ridiculous examples as you've pointed out, we're dealing with Toronto union employees who have a guaranteed job for life which has zero public support here.

But the right to collective bargaining? Go go go protesters!!!


yes, absolutely.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:50 AM   #33
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I thought it was the Dems that were hiding then, too.

and Tom Delay abused his power by using The Patriot Act to hunt them down.
Really? I could have sworn it was the R's. Whoops. My bad.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:58 AM   #34
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never let a good crisis go to waste.

<<<<<<<<<"To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the “crisis” would not exist.">>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was just going to post this info. Isn't it disgusting? This morning on Morning Joe, I heard Scarborough bloviating about how the teachers are being selfish and that they should be thankful for the jobs they have since the rest of America in the private sector has to pay more for benefits ect... Not a good way to start my day. He can be such a tool. Doesn't he realize that this is not about a "budget crisis" this is about union busting!! There was no crisis when Walker took office. There was a freaking surplus. THat was just weeks ago!! As soon as he took office he paid off the special interests and created this himself. But no... blame the hard working people of Wisconsin.
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:22 PM   #35
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yes, absolutely.

How are things in Virginia? That is where you are currently living, correct?

Are State employee jobs going unfilled? Are the State workers overpaid or reasonably compensated?
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:26 PM   #36
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Really? I could have sworn it was the R's. Whoops. My bad.
Actually the GOP were bad then.

And Tom Delay should be going to jail for abusing the system and breaking the law
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Old 02-18-2011, 01:28 PM   #37
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Actually the GOP were bad then.

And Tom Delay should be going to jail for abusing the system and breaking the law
Yes he should.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:02 PM   #38
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How are things in Virginia? That is where you are currently living, correct?

Are State employee jobs going unfilled? Are the State workers overpaid or reasonably compensated?


i live in Arlington, but work in another state, and spend most of my free time in DC itself. i don't know a great deal about VA itself, i culturally identify with DC and pay more attention to what goes on in the district -- it's a strange area, here, where you have two states and a district that comprise a single identity. i don't feel like a Virginian at all, but i do feel like a Washingtonian.

what goes on in Richmond feels like it might as well be Minneapolis, except that VA has some rather draconian socially conservative laws and an AG on a christianist jihad. that certainly affects me. we'll probably move if we get to the point where we want to buy a house. it's extremely difficult for a same-sex couple to protect mutual assets in the state of VA. any meddlesome blood relative could trump you legally.

d thanks to really, really good government by Mark Warner and Tim Kaine, not to mention explosive growth (and tax revenue) in the (liberal) northern suburbs that subsidize the rest of the state, the state itself seems to be in very good comparative shape. i don't know many, if any, state of VA workers, save for one who does sanitation. most of my friends work for the federal government. i can talk to you about that.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:17 PM   #39
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i live in Arlington, but work in another state, and spend most of my free time in DC itself. i don't know a great deal about VA itself, i culturally identify with DC and pay more attention to what goes on in the district -- it's a strange area, here, where you have two states and a district that comprise a single identity. i don't feel like a Virginian at all, but i do feel like a Washingtonian.

what goes on in Richmond feels like it might as well be Minneapolis, except that VA has some rather draconian socially conservative laws and an AG on a christianist jihad. that certainly affects me. we'll probably move if we get to the point where we want to buy a house. it's extremely difficult for a same-sex couple to protect mutual assets in the state of VA. any meddlesome blood relative could trump you legally.

d thanks to really, really good government by Mark Warner and Tim Kaine, not to mention explosive growth (and tax revenue) in the (liberal) northern suburbs that subsidize the rest of the state, the state itself seems to be in very good comparative shape. i don't know many, if any, state of VA workers, save for one who does sanitation. most of my friends work for the federal government. i can talk to you about that.
I did a Virginia news Google and some anti-gay rights for workers news came up.

Sorry to see that. But anyways, Virginia is one of 12 states that does not have collective bargaining for state employees. I do think VA public employees are offered (fair?) comp packages, that the state has not turned into Mexico where no one wants to work for government agencies,


I don't have a real strong opinion about Wis., from my vantage point I am still reading up on it. I believe they want to go with a two-tier system. New hires do not get as generous of comp packages. No one has to accept the new job if it is not competitive with the private sector, I imagine that Virginia is able to get public employees by competing with private sector offerings,

CA was able to negotiate a two-tier system with public employees without having to do away with collective bargaining. Is this possible in Wis?
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:57 PM   #40
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but who will make all of our cheese?
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:07 PM   #41
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CHlNA!
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:37 PM   #42
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CHlNA!
Win! LOL!!
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:04 PM   #43
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I imagine that Virginia is able to get public employees by competing with private sector offerings

i can't speak too much about VA itself, like i said, much of it is foreign to me.

i will say that the federal government is able to attract competitive workers away from, say, highly regarded consulting firms like Booze through their various incentives like pensions and good retirement plans. what you sacrifice in monetary performance -- government workers are paid according to their "level," not how well they've done -- you make up for in job security. like, we could get a great mortgage right now because Memphis is a fed. his job is *that* secure. and that's how they get people away from big-deal private sector jobs. also, people think that government work will be much easier, which might have been true in the past, but not anymore.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:03 PM   #44
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Irvine, I've heard the stories about the social laws in Virginia and the Attorney General of that state, yeah. Freakin' nutcase, that guy.

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NPR has summed this up nicely in reports over the past few days:

"Americans want more government than they are willing to pay for."

People are eager to cut spending, as long as it somebody else whose benefits get cut.
I saw that article on the website the other day. Spot on, oh-so-true. I wish it could be sent out to every single person in the country and they could be forced to read it until the words sank in.

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When the Tea Party types start refusing their social security checks and declining Medicare or Medicaid benefits in favor of paying for their health care themselves, well, then I suppose I'll have to respect their position. In the meantime I must conclude they are full of shit hypocrites.
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And when they stop wanting to vote for canidates that will waste money on social and "moral" issues, remain constitutionally consistent with the wars they support, and actually understand the current systems they champion...

So in otherwords it will be a long time before they gain anyone's respect outside of their uninformed bubbles.
These are my thoughts completely . Well said, you guys.

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I have made the point before, and I stand by it, that the middle and working classes class are being screwed by the welfare class below and the oligarchy scum on top. Both these classes are parasites.
I would hesitate a little to go after the welfare class. While I certainly don't deny there are people who abuse such things and must be stopped, at the same time, what with my family having been fairly close to being part of that class, and knowing people who are, I can sympathize more with them.

But the other part, yes, agreed. I mean, this...

Quote:
To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January.
...is just insane. If somebody is going to do that, then I want them to shut the fuck up about wasteful spending.

Angela
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:13 PM   #45
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When the Tea Party types start refusing their social security checks and declining Medicare or Medicaid benefits in favor of paying for their health care themselves, well, then I suppose I'll have to respect their position. In the meantime I must conclude they are full of shit hypocrites.
Lord, do I love Anthony Weiner:

YouTube - Weiner Calls On Republicans to Defund Their Health Care Plans

Defund your own healthcare hypocrites!
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