Tipping Point - Sexual Harassment In America

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We ought to test the theory that the older they are, the creepier they get.

Weinstein being the outlier though, but he’s a rapist.
 
I'm shocked that no one has mentioned this one yet.

..https://www.facebook.com/107705785934333/posts/2023998484305044/

Or


The abuse allegations against Rep. Keith Ellison, explained
Why the media has been reluctant to assert whether new claims of domestic violence are credible.
By Ella Nilsen on August 14, 2018 9:36 am


US Rep. Keith Ellison, who is running for Minnesota attorney general, faces new domestic abuse allegations. Sarah Rice/Getty Images
Rep. Keith Ellison (D-MN) was considered the favorite to win a five-way Democratic primary for attorney general in Minnesota on Tuesday; then he was accused of abuse by a former girlfriend — an accusation he vehemently denies.


On Saturday night, the son of Ellison’s ex-girlfriend Karen Monahan wrote a lengthy Facebook post saying that he saw a video of Ellison grabbing his mother and swearing at her in a bedroom.

This is the second time Ellison has been publicly accused of domestic violence. Another woman, Amy Alexander, spoke out in 2006, going public with her account that Ellison verbally abused her while they were having an affair. She also said he grabbed and pushed her during an argument. Ellison denied even having a relationship with her.

There are several similarities between the accounts: Both women were involved in Minnesota progressive politics, and they described Ellison losing his temper and using threats, verbal harassment, and violence.

But unlike other cases in the #MeToo era, where media outlets, in many cases, have asserted that women endured sexual harassment, assault, or other abusive behavior, the media has been much more ambivalent about asserting whether the claims are reliable.

In the recent case, for example, reporters at local and national outlets haven’t been able to review evidence Monahan herself has pointed to — and thereby confirm whether the alleged abuse took place. Monahan has said she won’t release the video that her son described in the Facebook post. And while she has released dozens of text messages she and Ellison sent to each other, they don’t specifically corroborate violence or verbal abuse. Some texts are obviously cropped in the middle of an exchange.

Alexander ended up in a legal battle with Ellison when he took her to court to get a restraining order, which a judge granted to him. Her counter-request was denied.

Ellison had appeared to be in a strong position in the Minnesota attorney general’s race as of last week. He’d secured the endorsements of Sen. Tina Smith, Gov. Mark Dayton, and 24 current Minnesota state legislators. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) campaigned with him, drawing a crowd of hundreds. Polling is scarce in the (normally) quiet race for state attorney general, so it’s difficult to say exactly where Ellison stands as voters head to the polls.

What we know about the new allegations
On Saturday night, Austin Monahan, the son of Ellison’s ex-girlfriend Karen Monahan, wrote on Facebook that he’d seen video of Ellison abusing his mother.

Karen Monahan had been posting for weeks on social media about an abusive relationship in her past, but she hadn’t named the man. She confirmed her son’s statement in a Sunday tweet, mentioning Ellison and adding, “you know you did that to me.”


Ellison confirmed he was in a relationship with Monahan in a two-line statement, but he denied ever abusing her — or that a video of such abuse existed.

“Karen and I were in a long-term relationship which ended in 2016, and I still care deeply for her well-being,” Ellison said in the statement.

Monahan also released a lengthy statement to local outlet Fox 9, painting a picture of a long-term relationship that was emotionally abusive and had taken a physical toll by the time she left Ellison in January 2017. In her statement, she said the relationship had taken a toll on her mental health and resulted in “complex PTSD.”

“Throughout the relationship he would say and do things and then gaslight me when I would ask what was going on,” Monahan said. “He would make me think I was crazy for suspecting things I had heard or had seen.”

In the post, Monahan alleged Ellison was unfaithful and characterized his behavior as “pathological lying, cheating,” and “smearing my name.” She also talks the specific incident of alleged abuse, which she said occurred in 2016:

One night I confronted him very calm about a lie he had just told me straight to my face. What happened next was a rage that I had never witnessed to that magnitude. He was becoming a person I had never seen before. The next morning, he came into the room I was sleeping in. I was laying across the bed with my headphones on, listening to podcast on my phone. He said he was about to leave town for the weekend and told me to take the trash out. Given the explosive outrage that occurred the night before, I just should shook my head yes. I didn’t look up at him or saying anything. That is when he tried to drag me off the bed by my legs and feet, screaming “bitch you answer when I am talking to you. I said take out the trash, your a bad guest (even though we were living in the same place). He kept trying to drag me off the bed, telling me to get the fuck out of his house, over and over. I froze. He had to leave and get on the plane. He knocked the shoe off my foot and told me I better be gone when he gets back (which was in two days).
A missing video file
At the center of this controversy is the alleged video that Monahan and her son both say captures domestic abuse.

The video “showed Keith Ellison dragging my mama off the bed by her feet, screaming and calling her a “f**king bitch” and telling her to get the f**k out of his house,” Austin Monahan wrote in his Facebook post. But in a later interview, he said he didn’t have the footage.

Karen Monahan says the video exists, but in an interview with the Minnesota public radio station MPR News, she said she doesn’t plan to release it.

“It’s humiliating, it’s traumatizing, for everyone’s family involved, and for me,” she told MPR on Monday. “It sets the expectation for survivors of all kinds of forms of abuse, whether it be abuse toward women, abuse from police officers, abuse from other people in power, to have to be the ones, like I’m doing right now, to show and prove their stories. It’s feeding into that.”

CNN has been trying to verify the existence of the video, but so far, Monahan has given shifting answers as to where the tape is. Here’s what we know about the video, from CNN’s Andrew Kaczynski and Nathan McDermott:

[Monahan] said that alleged physical altercation was the incident her son referred to involving Ellison allegedly pulling her off the bed and cursing at her. Monahan said she discretely recorded the video on her cell phone and then uploaded it onto her computer.

Monahan said Saturday that she did not know where the video was because she misplaced it when moving. Monahan also said she would not want the video made public in any case, calling it “embarrassing.”

Asked again on Monday about the video, Monahan said she put it on a flash drive and packed it up in her previous home and couldn’t immediately find it because it was in storage.

”It’s not on me to show embarrassing and traumatizing video that impacts both families,” Monahan told CNN on Monday.

Ellison, meanwhile, vehemently denies the footage even exists.

“This video does not exist because I never behaved in this way, and any characterization otherwise is false,” he said in a statement.

Vox contacted Karen and Austin Monahan for comment, but neither returned requests by publication time.

Cropped texts
Monahan released a batch of 100 text and Twitter messages between her and Ellison to MPR News. Many of those messages discussed the breakup; some were positive, while others were not. But, as reporter Briana Bierschbach noted, “there is no evidence in the messages reviewed by MPR News of the alleged physical abuse.”

In one exchange, Monahan told Ellison she wanted to write about their “journey” in a chapter of her book, which he called a “horrible attack on my privacy.” Public documents on the alleged incident are also scarce — there are no police reports or court documents confirming the incident, according to MPR News.

Monahan has also shared text various messages between Ellison and herself on Twitter. While one of Monahan’s texts references the alleged altercation and the video captured, Ellison did not respond to the text, according to MPR.



Other texts Monahan posted show Ellison’s contact information listed as “Dc” and are allegedly sent around April 2018. As Vox’s Emily Stewart noted, some of the text messages appear to be cut off, including ones referencing her son Austin.



This isn’t the first allegation of abuse against Ellison
After local and national outlets picked up Monahan’s allegations, some on Twitter pointed out this isn’t the first time a woman has accused Ellison of mistreatment and abuse.

In 2006, Ellison went to court with Amy Alexander, a Democratic activist, who said she first met Ellison in 1993 and started an extramarital affair with him. At the time, Ellison was married to Kim Ellison, whom he divorced in 2010.

On June 2005, Ellison took out a two-year restraining order against Alexander, and a year later, she filed a petition for her own restraining order in September 2006 (shortly before Ellison’s primary for the US House). In October 2006, Alexander wrote an article for a monthly Minnesota newsletter called the Wright County Republican, detailing what she said was a years-long relationship with Ellison.

Alexander said Ellison came to her house uninvited in June 2005, grabbed her, pushed her out of the way, and broke her screen door as he left her home. However, Alexander’s allegations also weren’t independently verified, as MPR News pointed out at the time.

Ellison denied that he was romantically involved with Alexander, and also maintained he had never been to her house or assaulted her. A 2006 court filing by Ellison’s lawyer accused Alexander of trying to blackmail his campaign.

Voters will head to the polls on Tuesday with the allegations hanging over the attorney general’s race. Before Saturday, Ellison was seen as a rising Democratic star — a progressive who understood the Democratic Party’s shifting center and had made a name for himself as vice chair of the national party.

Whether he’ll stay a rising star in the Democratic Party or burn out on Tuesday is an open question.

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And I’m just surprised Trump hasn’t automatically endorsed him yet.

BVS, are you obsessed with Trump? Not everything is about Trump.

You're proving my point by deflecting though. I know Ellison is a big fish in your beloved DNC
 
BVS, are you obsessed with Trump? Not everything is about Trump.



You're proving my point by deflecting though. I know Ellison is a big fish in your beloved DNC



My beloved DNC, :lol: you haven’t been paying attention.

Were you expecting a serious response? You refuse to engage, you attack, and you play “surprised no one’s talking about this” games, and NOW you expect engagement? There’s something seriously wrong with you.

I don’t know Ellison all that much, but it’s a shame if true.
 
I'm shocked at a drive by "I'm shocked" posting by jesus freak.

Oh wait, no I'm not.

Someone has to counteract your snarkiness and tribalism masked as moral outrage. Sorry I don't spend my entire life tied to this forum. One of my goals in life is not 50000 posts, but it would be nice to see the handful of you that keep FYM going actually be bipartisan in your "moral outrage".

It speaks volumes as well that you rarely address the issues I bring up, but just either toss a personal insult or try to get a laugh by being a smart ass.
 
Asia Argento

ewwww

Yeah, that is really disappointing if true.

Even though it pretty much discredits her, it does not discredit the whole #MeToo movement at all. And by that, I mean, even though she has a right to call out Weinstein, it doesn't mean she's excused or exempt from any horrible behavior.
 
Someone has to counteract your snarkiness and tribalism masked as moral outrage. Sorry I don't spend my entire life tied to this forum. One of my goals in life is not 50000 posts, but it would be nice to see the handful of you that keep FYM going actually be bipartisan in your "moral outrage".

It speaks volumes as well that you rarely address the issues I bring up, but just either toss a personal insult or try to get a laugh by being a smart ass.

Lolz this guy, amirite?

Which post that isn't a link to a Facebook post would you like me to comment on? I'll do my best to answer it in a "bipartisan" way, but it'll be hard to control my moral outage considering I'm all tribal and all.

And apologies for being a member of this forum for 18 years. Next time I get a time machine I'll head back to 2000 and tell my younger self to lay easy on the posts so as not to upset you.

I'll tell myself to not register as a republican, either - knowing what the party will end up as and all. It'll hurt my liberal tribal cred.
 
Yeah, that is really disappointing if true.

Even though it pretty much discredits her, it does not discredit the whole #MeToo movement at all. And by that, I mean, even though she has a right to call out Weinstein, it doesn't mean she's excused or exempt from any horrible behavior.
It doesn't necessarily discredit her.

There's a thing called bully-victims; people who are victims themselves who then go out and do the same to others. It's a psychological defense mechanism.

It doesn't excuse her behavior by any stretch - but it is a real thing and is more common than you think. It's another reason why victims of any sort of harassment need to get the help they need and get it very early on.
 
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It doesn't necessarily discredit her.

There's a thing called bully-victims; people who are victims themselves who then go out and do the same to others. It's a psychological defense mechanism.

It doesn't excuse her behavior by any stretch - but it is a real thing and is more common than you think. It's another reason why victims of any sort of harassment need to get the help they need and get it very early on.



I see the relationship but I don’t think that rapey Weinstein and her actions are the same thing.

First of all, statutory rape and age of consent laws are dumb laws. They make sense in that they protect minors, but it’s difficult to define where the boundaries lay. There are efforts to bandaid their shortcomings (so called “Romeo and Juliet” laws) that protect people of close age. I’d argue that 20 years isn’t very close in age... so her actions are super weird and creepy, but not child rapey creepy. Anyways, there are mental aspects of it that are why the line gets drawn, but I suppose my point is that I never want to step on toes over two consenting adults - but a 17 year old is truly a case by case basis if they qualify as an “adult.” So from that angle, I have no desire to criticize her behavior, even if it’s a strange age difference.

And I do intend to separate her as not being a victim who has become a perp in the sense that Harvey, the original perp, raped her and others. What she’s done, in my eyes, is more off the scummy note of a Louis C K. And for the record, it took open air discussion on here for me to really be harsher on him. But what she’s done is what he did - abusing power as a senior member of their field, effectively, to get what she wants.

Harvey forcefully raped people and abused his power to cover up immoral acts. She abused her power not likely understanding that she’d done so, but more out of pure lust and desire.

It’s not forgivable, but it is different. We should treat it differently, and before ousting someone like this, offer them a path to repair. She’s done awful things, but she is not an awful person.
 
I see the relationship but I don’t think that rapey Weinstein and her actions are the same thing.

First of all, statutory rape and age of consent laws are dumb laws. They make sense in that they protect minors, but it’s difficult to define where the boundaries lay. There are efforts to bandaid their shortcomings (so called “Romeo and Juliet” laws) that protect people of close age. I’d argue that 20 years isn’t very close in age... so her actions are super weird and creepy, but not child rapey creepy. Anyways, there are mental aspects of it that are why the line gets drawn, but I suppose my point is that I never want to step on toes over two consenting adults - but a 17 year old is truly a case by case basis if they qualify as an “adult.” So from that angle, I have no desire to criticize her behavior, even if it’s a strange age difference.

And I do intend to separate her as not being a victim who has become a perp in the sense that Harvey, the original perp, raped her and others. What she’s done, in my eyes, is more off the scummy note of a Louis C K. And for the record, it took open air discussion on here for me to really be harsher on him. But what she’s done is what he did - abusing power as a senior member of their field, effectively, to get what she wants.

Harvey forcefully raped people and abused his power to cover up immoral acts. She abused her power not likely understanding that she’d done so, but more out of pure lust and desire.

It’s not forgivable, but it is different. We should treat it differently, and before ousting someone like this, offer them a path to repair. She’s done awful things, but she is not an awful person.
Not at all saying what she did is on the same line as Weinstein... only that it's not uncommon for victims of abuse to end up abusing themselves. It's definitely more common in males who have been abused than in females... alas.

There's also a bit more than just an age of consent thing going on here.
 
I see the relationship but I don’t think that rapey Weinstein and her actions are the same thing.

First of all, statutory rape and age of consent laws are dumb laws. They make sense in that they protect minors, but it’s difficult to define where the boundaries lay. There are efforts to bandaid their shortcomings (so called “Romeo and Juliet” laws) that protect people of close age. I’d argue that 20 years isn’t very close in age... so her actions are super weird and creepy, but not child rapey creepy. Anyways, there are mental aspects of it that are why the line gets drawn, but I suppose my point is that I never want to step on toes over two consenting adults - but a 17 year old is truly a case by case basis if they qualify as an “adult.” So from that angle, I have no desire to criticize her behavior, even if it’s a strange age difference.

And I do intend to separate her as not being a victim who has become a perp in the sense that Harvey, the original perp, raped her and others. What she’s done, in my eyes, is more off the scummy note of a Louis C K. And for the record, it took open air discussion on here for me to really be harsher on him. But what she’s done is what he did - abusing power as a senior member of their field, effectively, to get what she wants.

Harvey forcefully raped people and abused his power to cover up immoral acts. She abused her power not likely understanding that she’d done so, but more out of pure lust and desire.

It’s not forgivable, but it is different. We should treat it differently, and before ousting someone like this, offer them a path to repair. She’s done awful things, but she is not an awful person.

wow, this is the most ridiculous excuse for a defense I have read on this subject.

oh sorry, correction: it's the only defense I have read on this subject (Asia specifically).

just can't make this stuff up. amazing the double standards at play here. Good job Lucky #7, good job.

and a shout out to Headache for stepping in and reaffirming this hypocritcal bullshit. you guys rock.
 
wow, this is the most ridiculous excuse for a defense I have read on this subject.

oh sorry, correction: it's the only defense I have read on this subject (Asia specifically).

just can't make this stuff up. amazing the double standards at play here. Good job Lucky #7, good job.

and a shout out to Headache for stepping in and reaffirming this hypocritcal bullshit. you guys rock.

I'm sorry, what exactly did I do to defend or excuse anyone?

By saying that people who are abused can sometimes end up abusing themselves down the road? That's not an excuse for behavior. It's merely another reason why the cycle of abuse must end, why we need to get people who are abused the help they need, and why the shame associated with being abused needs to end at that people CAN get the help they need.

That she became an abuser herself doesn't change what Weinstein did to her. It also doesn't excuse her actions in any way.
 
wow, this is the most ridiculous excuse for a defense I have read on this subject.

oh sorry, correction: it's the only defense I have read on this subject (Asia specifically).

just can't make this stuff up. amazing the double standards at play here. Good job Lucky #7, good job.

and a shout out to Headache for stepping in and reaffirming this hypocritcal bullshit. you guys rock.



Dude (or dudette), I have literally no opinion of you and if I’ve ever interacted with you negatively, I certainly didn’t keep a tab. But, you know, read the way you unnecessarily just responded to me like a dick. You deserve people keeping tabs on you when you respond so pompously. Just can’t make this stuff up!

It wasn’t a defense. I’d explain why it wasn’t a defense, but most of that would just be copying and pasting the post you quoted. So, that’s not helping anyone.

As for “double standards,” fuck off. By all means, go several pages back. I referenced it in the post you quoted. I made this same argument for Louis C K where I did not believe it was fair to lump him into Weinstein territory. Those are MY views, asshole. So think twice before going and collecting someone else’s views and pasting them on to me.
 
Not at all saying what she did is on the same line as Weinstein... only that it's not uncommon for victims of abuse to end up abusing themselves. It's definitely more common in males who have been abused than in females... alas.

There's also a bit more than just an age of consent thing going on here.



To your last point, it is more of an age of consent thing going on here. I agree. Thats why I related it back to Louis C K. I was attempting to refine exactly what she’s done wrong here - she isn’t a rapist, but she grossly abused her position of power.
 
To your last point, it is more of an age of consent thing going on here. I agree. Thats why I related it back to Louis C K. I was attempting to refine exactly what she’s done wrong here - she isn’t a rapist, but she grossly abused her position of power.
Meh, while it's certainly not to the level of a serial abuser like Weinstein, I'd put it above that of Louis C.K.
 
Dude (or dudette), I have literally no opinion of you and if I’ve ever interacted with you negatively, I certainly didn’t keep a tab. But, you know, read the way you unnecessarily just responded to me like a dick. You deserve people keeping tabs on you when you respond so pompously. Just can’t make this stuff up!

It wasn’t a defense. I’d explain why it wasn’t a defense, but most of that would just be copying and pasting the post you quoted. So, that’s not helping anyone.

As for “double standards,” fuck off. By all means, go several pages back. I referenced it in the post you quoted. I made this same argument for Louis C K where I did not believe it was fair to lump him into Weinstein territory. Those are MY views, asshole. So think twice before going and collecting someone else’s views and pasting them on to me.

you have, but that's ok, you're not alone.

your post read like a defense.

looking back on my own post, I admit that could have been less in your face about it.
 
Well, my bottom line was just that people like her have committed acts that we need to learn how to properly approach, punish, and rehabilitate. And I do not buy the “abused became the abuser” in this case. The reason why I distinguish a Harvey Weinstein (or a Mario Batali or whoever) is because they’ve committed acts where they sexually assaulted people with their powers. Anyone could figure that’s morally reprehensible.

I equate these pettier but still reprehensible actions to otherwise good people akin to falling into addiction of their own sexual ego. It’s entirely possible that during the time they never questioned their behavior. It’s the kind of stuff that should invalidate you from ever running for office, you know, and perhaps it should end your time in fame, but it shouldn’t force society to reject you.

People make mistakes. Yes, these people don’t deserve their fame and should have it stripped away. Or perhaps they should be forced into a life of labor for the cause. Think, for example, Tim Hardaway. Fringe HOF candidate owes the rest of his life in repentance for who he was. He’s nobody now. But who he’s chosen to become since then has made his life worthwhile.

I’m one for never forgetting. The bad and the good.
 
Well, my bottom line was just that people like her have committed acts that we need to learn how to properly approach, punish, and rehabilitate. And I do not buy the “abused became the abuser” in this case. The reason why I distinguish a Harvey Weinstein (or a Mario Batali or whoever) is because they’ve committed acts where they sexually assaulted people with their powers. Anyone could figure that’s morally reprehensible.

I equate these pettier but still reprehensible actions to otherwise good people akin to falling into addiction of their own sexual ego. It’s entirely possible that during the time they never questioned their behavior. It’s the kind of stuff that should invalidate you from ever running for office, you know, and perhaps it should end your time in fame, but it shouldn’t force society to reject you.

People make mistakes. Yes, these people don’t deserve their fame and should have it stripped away. Or perhaps they should be forced into a life of labor for the cause. Think, for example, Tim Hardaway. Fringe HOF candidate owes the rest of his life in repentance for who he was. He’s nobody now. But who he’s chosen to become since then has made his life worthwhile.

I’m one for never forgetting. The bad and the good.

I think you're seriously playing down what is alleged to have occurred.

In the documents, Bennett sought to sue Argento for an alleged May 9, 2013 encounter at the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Marina del Rey, Calif. Bennett arrived with a family member but Argento reportedly sent them away so she could be alone with him. At that time, Bennett alleges that she showed him notes she had previously written to him and gave him alcohol. She then reportedly kissed him, pushed him back on the bed, performed oral sex on him and then the two had intercourse.

This is more than an abuse of a power. She plied him with alcohol before having sex with him.
 
exactly, she is no better than any other person who has committed a similar act. it's unclear if this is a serial thing with her or a one off, but we can't let her off the hook any more than anyone else. and the fact that she is apparently ignoring/denying repeated requests for comment, says a lot.
 
I think you're seriously playing down what is alleged to have occurred.

This is more than an abuse of a power. She plied him with alcohol before having sex with him.


Fair enough. But still, it’s hard to genuinely understand what happened. I don’t doubt the claimant’s emotional trauma following the event. But, the impression I get was that they were already friends and the alcohol thing wasn’t something new.

But maybe you’re right, maybe I’m downplaying it.
 
He was 17 and she played his mother in a movie when he was 14 I believe. They referred to each other as mother and son. Yes indeed she abused her position of power, and it is complete hypocrisy. This topic has come up in the past here, and in the past it was a few males who dismissed it as some rite of passage/teenage boy fantasy-when it is nothing but sexual abuse. I have zero double standard about that.

This will have a negative impact on the Weinstein case. His lawyer was already on tv this morning saying he told Weinstein about Asia Argento. And acting as if that somehow vindicated Weinstein, already trying to imply that other accusers were lying hypocrites too. It affects the Me Too movement. If they don't speak out about this and call it sexual abuse, they're hypocrites. In the court of public opinion, they're going to lose. There are plenty of people looking for ammunition against MeToo, you can't hand it to them on a silver platter by staying silent about hypocrisy and sexual abuse of boys by women.
 
Well said, MrsSpringsteen. Rose McGowan has actually been asking people to be "gentle" toward Asia. That's really going to hurt #MeToo and all future attempts to do something about male-on-female sexual abuse.
 
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