The Truth, Still Inconvenient

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I did. The jury is still out on CO2. I actually hope for warming because I live on the frontlines where more cold is too much. 10 times the CO2 couldn't stop ice ages let alone a mini ice age.
 
Carbon levels hit new peak, research shows

Preliminary data from the US government shows that carbon dioxide levels peaked last week at the highest levels on record

Carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere have reached a new peak despite the economic recession in western countries and assurances from politicians that they intend to cut emissions, new research has shown.

Preliminary data from the US government's Earth Systems Research Laboratory at Mauna Loa in Hawaii, where measurements of CO2 have been continuously monitored for almost 50 years, show that 2011 CO2 levels peaked last week at 394.97ppm. This is an increase of nearly 1.6ppm on last year and the highest ever recorded.

The research comes after estimates from the International Energy Agency, revealed by the Guardian on Monday, that carbon-dioxide emissions from energy generation in 2010 were also the highest in history. About three-quarters of the energy emissions increase in 2010 came from developing countries, including China and India, said the IEA.

The continuing upward trend of CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is alarming climate scientists who say that levels must be held at or around 400ppm if we are to have any chance of avoiding serious climate change.

"This underlines the urgency of the problem. The CO2 figure continues to grow rapidly [and] can only accelerate while industrialising countries [such as China and India] do not decarbonise their economies because they have an increasingly large share of total emissions", said Dr Alice Bows, lecturer in Energy and climate change at Manchester university's Sustainable Consumption Institute.

The Mauna Loa monitoring station, run by the US government's National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) – situated at 12,000ft and well away from major pollution sources in the middle of the Pacific – is considered the most reliable place to measure concentrations of gases in the atmosphere .

If present trends of a 1.5-2ppm annual increase in CO2 levels continue, there is little chance of stabilising greenhouse gas concentrations at 450 ppm. This would only result in a 50% likelihood of limiting global warming to 2C. Climate scientists say it would be necessary to achieve stabilisation well below 400 ppm to give a relatively high certainty of not exceeding 2C.

Two degrees is the point that scientists consider to be the threshold for "dangerous" climate change which, once passed, will leave millions exposed to drought, hunger and flooding.

"It's not too late to stop dangerous climate change if the world acts now – and fast. We need to save energy, reduce demand, and develop safe and renewable alternatives to polluting fossil fuels," said Mike Childs, head of climate at Friends of the Earth.

The new CO2 peak comes as 189 countries prepare to resume the UN climate talks in Bonn. No final agreement is expected this year because of continuing disagreements between rich and poor countries but progress is expected to be made on reducing emissions from forestry and securing cash to enable the poorest countries to adapt their economies to increasingly severe climatic events.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/may/31/carbon-levels-peak

So we have to keep the CO2 levels below 400ppm, they currently are at 395ppm and increasing at about 1.5ppm per year, and the experts think that we still have time?

I think we have been hearing that "we still have time" ever since 2004. What a great way to be optimistic! :cute:
 
We would have to have indefinite recessions until (decades later?) a new technology that can replace fossil fuels appears to significantly reduce our addition of CO2. We going to go way over 400ppm easily. That's why no country can meet Kyoto. It's economic suicide.
 
Do the cars we drive, the factories we use, or the cigarettes we smoke not emit chemicals and gasses into the atmosphere?

I heard you fart.

Seconds later, three indian ocean dolphins died because of you. It´s called butterfly effect.
 
Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Resigns Over Global Warming | Fox News
Dr. Ivar Giaever, a former professor with Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and the 1973 winner of the Nobel Prize in physics, abruptly announced his resignation Tuesday, Sept. 13, from the premier physics society in disgust over its officially stated policy that "global warming is occurring."

The official position of the American Physical Society (APS) supports the theory that man's actions have inexorably led to the warming of the planet, through increased emissions of carbon dioxide.

Giaever does not agree -- and put it bluntly and succinctly in the subject line of his email, reprinted at Climate Depot, a website devoted to debunking the theory of man-made climate change.

Giaever was cooled to the statement on warming theory by a line claiming that "the evidence is incontrovertible."

"In the APS it is ok to discuss whether the mass of the proton changes over time and how a multi-universe behaves, but the evidence of global warming is incontrovertible?" he wrote in an email to Kate Kirby, executive officer of the physics society.

"The claim … is that the temperature has changed from ~288.0 to ~288.8 degree Kelvin in about 150 years, which (if true) means to me is that the temperature has been amazingly stable, and both human health and happiness have definitely improved in this 'warming' period," his email message said.

I don't know who this guy is but he makes a good point. Incontrovertible?

There are two global ideologies at present that publicly declare themselves sacrosanct and beyond criticism from apostates.

One is climate change.
 
I don't know who this guy is but he makes a good point. Incontrovertible?

There are two global ideologies at present that publicly declare themselves sacrosanct and beyond criticism from apostates.

One is climate change.

If that's the case the other one must be consumerist globalist neo-liberalist capitalism.
 
The science is settled. The evidence that carbon-dioxide emissions from cars, power plants, buildings and other sources is heating the Earth's atmosphere is as rock solid as Einstein's E=mc2.
 
The science is settled. The evidence that carbon-dioxide emissions from cars, power plants, buildings and other sources is heating the Earth's atmosphere is as rock solid as Einstein's E=mc2.

I don't know why there was so much coverage of that this week. I thought some x-rays could escape black holes--hence they travel faster than light.

And then there is the thought of slingshoting a black hole with a spacecraft--the result could be travel faster than the speed of light.
:shrug:

FWIW
 
There are two global ideologies at present that publicly declare themselves sacrosanct and beyond criticism from apostates.

One is climate change.
One is agreed upon by the majority of the scientific community doing climate research.

The other is supported by a minority of the scientific community and propped up by lobbying money from high-carbon producers and a right-wing who is heavily invested in seeing those companies continue to do business as usual.

You are making this way too easy.



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Science Friday Newsbriefs: Lake Tanganyika Heating Up, Warmest In 1,500 Years

Jessica Tierney, lead scientist on the project and currently a post-doctoral researcher with National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration’s Climate and Global Change program, analyzed core samples from the lake floor to deduce lake surface temperatures over the past 1,500 years.

Lake temperatures have fluctuated in the past but this warming is unprecedented. “The warmest it’s ever gotten was 24.3 degrees Celsius. It’s never happened to the degree it is happening now,” says Tierney. Lake Tanganyika last reached 24.3 degrees Celsius during a warm period between 600 and 900 years ago. It is currently 26 degrees Celsius, or 78.8 degrees Fahrenheit.
 
How do you use a dollar sign to replace the R in a name? How did that ever make sense when you were typing that post? I have honestly no idea what to think about that.
 
Al did not invent, nor did he even shine the brightest light on climate change.

You should say Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) otherwise you're sending propaganda. Climate change can be natural. "Climate change" sends the impression that ALL real climate change is man-made. It also sends the impression that the weather now is unprecidented and there was a golden age of climate that we ruined. Or is that what you want everyone to think? :shh:
 
Otherwise I'm sending propaganda?

:doh:

Have you ever stopped to think maybe you're the only one that's that impressionable?

LOL! Who are you fooling? Lots of people will be impressionable if there's a constant drumbeat (from authentic scientists, UN, politicians) that all storms and extreme weather are our fault. Where have you been since Kyoto? :D In Copenhagen politicians were actually acting like they could climate control the planet with carbon taxes. It's not just that, it's also any changes to flora and fauna on the planet. Guilt (especially misplaced guilt) over and over again is wearing out the public as we speak.

Didn't Kramwest just create a post that (AGAIN) says that we are warmer than anytime in the past 1,500 years (which includes Medieval warming period)? That was a historical period that allowed crops in higher latitudes than today. If you go back farther to the Holocene it was even warmer.

It's obvious that 6 degree increases in average temperature with a doubling of CO2 isn't going to happen. As Richard Lindzen pointed out:

http://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/acs-2011-lindzen.pdf

Moreover, the high sensitivity of some current models would render the stability of the earth over 4.5 billion years dubious. Engineers have long recognized this and generally avoid feedback factors greater than about 0.1.

All you're left with is a small warming that won't matter much one way or another. The rest is just the U.N. acting like an aggressive panhandler looking for a slush fund for green cronies.
 
I made one of the most benign comments in this thread and you used it to accuse me of propaganda(eventhough you know the majority in here are intelligent enough to understand the damn phrase) and to jump into your UN-cronie-socialist right wing paranoia speech.

It's a tired sad broken record.
 
Didn't Kramwest just create a post that (AGAIN) says that we are warmer than anytime in the past 1,500 years (which includes Medieval warming period)? That was a historical period that allowed crops in higher latitudes than today. If you go back farther to the Holocene it was even warmer.

Actually, no he didn't - you misread (or didn't bother reading the whole thing). His post refers to reports that one particular lake, Lake Tanganyika, is warmer than anytime in the past 1,500 years.
 
Actually, no he didn't - you misread (or didn't bother reading the whole thing). His post refers to reports that one particular lake, Lake Tanganyika, is warmer than anytime in the past 1,500 years.

Yeah, it's a fairly compartmentalized article and only just touches on the real human consequences of the lake's rising temp.

If warming waters worldwide is a natural cycle or human-caused, the effects are real and serious for all life including, and most alarmingly, human.
 
Yeah, it's a fairly compartmentalized article and only just touches on the real human consequences of the lake's rising temp.

If warming waters worldwide is a natural cycle or human-caused, the effects are real and serious for all life including, and most alarmingly, human.

This is an old story:

Brown Geologists Show Unprecedented Warming in Lake Tanganyika | Brown University News and Events

And of course the human fault is?????

Climate change models show a general warming in the region, which, if accurate, would cause even greater warming of the Lake Tanganyika’s surface waters and more stratification in the lake as a whole. “So, as you move forward, you can imagine that density gradient increasing,” said Russell, an author on the paper.

Twentieth-Century Warming in Lake Tanganyika is Unprecedented | UANews.org

The team attributes the lake's increased temperature and the decreased productivity during the 20th century to human-caused global warming.

Emphasis mine

Of course as you mention there could be more reasons:

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Watershed deforestation, road building, and other anthropogenic activities result in sediment inundation of lacustrine habitats.

So is this going to be a general environmentalist thread that includes deforestations, etc or are we going to stick to CO2 being the main culprit?
 
Did you just mention deforestation and CO2 as if they weren't related?

Deforestation is less of a problem in rich countries than poor ones. Improving with modern farming uses less land, feeds more people and requires less trees to be cut down. The solution for poor countries is to get rich which will involve fossil fuels. That's why people who think organic farming should be everywhere is just a bunch of crazy talk.
 
That's why people who think organic farming should be everywhere is just a bunch of crazy talk.

I think organic farming should be everywhere, but located in agri-towers (multistory buildings/skyscrapers that can be built anywhere).
There are companies out there with excellent models. Some Middle Eastern countries are very interested.

We romanticize farming too much in the U.S.
 
purpleoscar said:
The solution for poor countries is to get rich which will involve fossil fuels. That's why people who think organic farming should be everywhere is just a bunch of crazy talk.
Are you for real? Is this what you consider an adult answer?
 
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