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Old 12-17-2011, 12:00 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Not 70 trillion over 40 years, and not to the U.N. Certainly a tax credit for those who perform research and development. Once the technology is better then there will be venture capitalists who will want to make profits on it and it will grow on it's own.
so basically you want to wait until it is profitable. i hate this country.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:59 AM   #287
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The false premise is that if wind and solar work in particular places that it may develop to the point where it can work in most places. It may not. Some technologies will take decades or not at all no matter how much money you put at it. That's why I like nuclear because it's a lot closer and it won't damage the economy as badly. Right now we could move towards replacing coal electricity without having to deindustrialize. With nuclear fusion we would power everything. Wind sucks. Solar may have a future once all the light waves can be absorbed.

My point of view is that we should focus on research and development and I'm okay with some money there but when there is a huge deficit and overall debt I don't want to shutdown coal plants right away a la Obama and James Hansen and I don't want to put people out of work in a bad economy. It's not rocket science guys.
No, that was not the premise of my question. You should go back and read. I tried. I tried to take this discussion to another level where we were just discussing the ideas of the technologies without politics, but you weren't capable. It's not rocket science, this could have been an interesting discussion. I should have known better.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:01 AM   #288
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Perhaps (or perhaps not) he'd be more willing if you weren't so condescending in response, BVS.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:45 AM   #289
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Perhaps (or perhaps not) he'd be more willing if you weren't so condescending in response, BVS.
Less condescending? If only that would ever happen. Maybe a Christmas miracle? One can hope...
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:49 AM   #290
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Perhaps (or perhaps not) he'd be more willing if you weren't so condescending in response, BVS.
I think we all know Oscar well enough to know that really wouldn't matter, I've tried all approaches with him. And let's not pretend that he's innocent and cordial either.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:47 PM   #291
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I suggest that next time you feel you've run out of all options except condescension, you just let it go. Constantly berating someone because they're not giving you the answer you want is a waste of time, and certainly does nothing to elevate the level of discourse.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:05 PM   #292
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so basically you want to wait until it is profitable. i hate this country.
Let me get this right. You hate the profit motive and you hate this country?

Philly, you'll never get a job at Fox News with that attitude. MSNBC... sure, but who watches them?
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:04 AM   #293
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I ought to point out that the accommodations that purpleoscar puts forth is exactly the kind of sliding intransigence that I have alluded to, quite possibly in this thread, of deliberate ignorance leading to limited acknowledgement of a problem until the cost-benefit is problematic.

A thinking person ought to question their motivations. I have every reason to be a denialist and I question the motivations of climatologists, but I balance this against a preference for truth and a belief that a conspiracy of scientists would be utterly unsustainable.

Ruthless competition for grants checks against systematic collaboration to a grand lie by climate scientists and one ought to bear in mind that the reality of climate change is not one that most people would wish for.
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Old 12-18-2011, 02:52 PM   #294
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I suggest that next time you feel you've run out of all options except condescension, you just let it go. Constantly berating someone because they're not giving you the answer you want is a waste of time, and certainly does nothing to elevate the level of discourse.
Wow! Thanks!

Anyways there is no clear answer right now. If solar and wind were that good (AKA profitable and net jobs wouldn't be lost) everyone would do it. Everyone would like an Iceland geothermal situation or cool solar panels that could pay for themselves IN MOST regions but we aren't there yet. Also with the science on man induced climate change is still in heated debate with the Climategate emails it's good for everyone to keep their powder dry before they invest too much emotion for either side. Pro AGW types will post controversial studies blaming man and skeptics will look for holes in the science when they try and replicate the studies. Until things are clear on the science I don't know anyone who would glady reduce their standard of living willingly with anything other than a catastrophie. This group of people will also include celebrity environmentalists who live high on the hog and preach to others.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/...oe-under-fire/

Quote:
Watts said that while much of the data itself is now available, the methods of adjusting it -- statistical modification meant to filter anomalies, "normalize" the data, and potentially highlight certain trends -- remain a secret.

"Much of climate science, in terms of the computer processing that goes on, remains a black box to the outside world. We see the data go in, and we see the data that come out as a finished product -- but we don’t know how they adjust it in between.”

Watts said he would like to be given the adjustment formulas to make his own determination.

"The fact that they are trying to keep people from replicating their studies -- that's the issue," Watts noted. "Replication is the most important tenet of science."
The great thing about profit though is when a new technology shows that promise, the change happens more quickly because profits grow jobs and sustain a larger population and I expect that nuclear and (if it improves light absorption) solar will help.
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Old 12-18-2011, 05:45 PM   #295
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Philly, you'll never get a job at Fox News with that attitude. MSNBC... sure, but who watches them?
That's like asking him if he wants to work for Burger King or Arby's. Same shit, different packaging.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:56 PM   #296
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We know the terrible legacy of our love of fossil fuels. But will it stop us? No chance | Ian Jack | Comment is free | The Guardian
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:04 AM   #297
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:27 PM   #298
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My interpretation,

The world is already messed up because of past generations... why should I take the stand to preserve the environment so that future generations will have a sustainable place to live since I am already struggling too much to maintain my existence in this planet because of the past generations' faults?

Neurosis is a major problem in human existence.
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Old 01-05-2012, 09:56 PM   #299
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My interpretation,

The world is already messed up because of past generations... why should I take the stand to preserve the environment so that future generations will have a sustainable place to live since I am already struggling too much to maintain my existence in this planet because of the past generations' faults?

Neurosis is a major problem in human existence.


My interpertation.

This "world system" (governments and social orders) is indeed
a world gone wrong.

The earth is fine and doing well.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:02 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by the iron horse

My interpertation.

This "world system" (governments and social orders) is indeed
a world gone wrong.

The earth is fine and doing well.
Two questions:

Why are you always complaining about a "world system"?

When you say the "earth is fine" do you honestly believe there is nothing humans can do to change that?
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