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Old 10-21-2011, 07:53 AM   #181
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BBC News - Global warming 'confirmed' by independent study

The BBC have an excellent graph showing how closely this data matches previous studies.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:23 AM   #182
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How could human activity possibly effect climate???

Very interesting theory:

Columbus' Arrival Linked To Carbon Dioxide Drop - Science News

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By sailing to the New World, Christopher Columbus and other explorers who followed him may have set off a chain of events that cooled Europe’s climate.

The European conquest of the Americas decimated the people living there, leaving large areas of cleared land untended. Trees that filled in this territory pulled billions of tons of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, Stanford University geochemist Richard Nevle reported October 11 at the Geological Society of America annual meeting. Such carbon dioxide removal could have diminished the heat-trapping capacity of the atmosphere and cooled the climate, Nevil and his colleagues have previously reported.

“We have a massive reforestation event that’s sequestering carbon … coincident with the European arrival,” said Nevle.

Ice cores from Antarctica contain air bubbles that show a drop in carbon dioxide around this time. These bubbles suggest that levels of the greenhouse gas decreased by 6 to 10 parts per million between 1525 and the early 1600s.

Reforestation fits with another clue hidden in Antarctic ice, says Nevle. As the population declined in the Americas, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere got heavier. Increasingly, molecules of the gas tended to be made of carbon-13, a naturally occurring isotope with an extra neutron. That could be because tree leaves prefer to take in gas made of carbon-12, leaving the heavier version in the air.

“There’s nothing else happening in the rest of the world at this time, in terms of human land use, that could explain this rapid carbon uptake,” says Jed Kaplan, an earth systems scientist at the Federal Polytechnic School of Lausanne in Switzerland.

Kaplan points out that there’s a lot of uncertainty in isotope measurements, so this evidence isn’t conclusive. But he agrees that the New World pandemics were a major event that can’t be ignored — a tragedy that highlighted mankind’s ability to influence the climate long before the industrial revolution.
^partial article
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:09 PM   #183
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Nice try guys. Where's the evidence that the warming since the last little ice age was all due to man? Nobody has this including "BEST". Also skeptics aren't saying that there was no warming since the LIA. They are arguing how much is natural and how much is man made. When recent temperatures slow down and sea level starts to decrease when CO2 increases it raises major questions. When the land based data differs from satellite data the debate is hardly over.

Comment On The Article in the Economist On Rich Muller’s Data Analysis | Climate Science: Roger Pielke Sr.

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The nearly identical trends is no surprise as they draw from mostly the same raw data!
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“The raw surface temperature data from which all of the different global surface temperature trend analyses are derived are essentially the same. The best estimate that has been reported is that 90–95% of the raw data in each of the analyses is the same (P. Jones, personal communication, 2003).”
Secondly we actually can't afford to do carbon taxes since it would shrink the economy so the solutions are not tenable in a democracy. You can't pay more for energy without it depriving cash from other industries. Unemployment will increase without new industries replacing the old ones. The only humans who believe carbon taxes are okay are only special interest groups that want tax dollars for their lame technologies that produce pathetic amounts of energy. There may also be some ignorant people that don't realize what would happen to their standard of living because they think there will be no cost. (Eg. green techologies can quickly replace fossil fuels).

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How could human activity possibly effect climate???

Very interesting theory:

Columbus' Arrival Linked To Carbon Dioxide Drop - Science News


^partial article
Thanks to modern technology there is less need to clear trees for farming.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:23 PM   #184
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Oscar do you even read people's posts?
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:27 PM   #185
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Oscar do you even read people's posts?
Are you saying I'm reading too much inbetween the lines? The context of this thread is belief that man influences the climate towards destruction and that we must stop using fossil fuels ASAP.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:32 PM   #186
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Why hello there, straw man argument.

Has anyone even tried to claim that the warming since the last ice age was all due to man?
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:39 PM   #187
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Why hello there, straw man argument.

Has anyone even tried to claim that the warming since the last ice age was all due to man?
little ice age you mean?

The claim is that man influenced the majority of 20th century warming (especially after 1950) and is going to in the future towards destruction of the planet.

6 Degrees Warmer: Mass Extinction? - YouTube
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:52 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Are you saying I'm reading too much inbetween the lines? The context of this thread is belief that man influences the climate towards destruction and that we must stop using fossil fuels ASAP.
Yes, in more ways than one. No one mentioned taxes, no one mentioned that all warming was due to man, and yes there are some that completely deny warming. You need a stronger grasp on this subject, try making just one post without a strawman.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:52 PM   #189
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Why hello there, straw man argument.

Has anyone even tried to claim that the warming since the last ice age was all due to man?
Definitely not. But to think that we have not influenced an acceleration of the warming process is preposterous, in my opinion.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:53 PM   #190
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If our temperatures aren't solely influenced by the actions of humans, we must be doing nothing wrong!
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:18 PM   #191
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If our temperatures aren't solely influenced by the actions of humans, we must be doing nothing wrong!
That seems to be the "skeptics" m.o. That or "it costs too much to fix anyway, so let's just keep doing business as usual."
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:41 PM   #192
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If our temperatures aren't solely influenced by the actions of humans, we must be doing nothing wrong!
Actually it's more like "please discover what is human and what is nature" regarding temperatures and then create climate models that actually predict the climate much better because of the improved data. Recycling old data and then claiming skeptics shouldn't be skeptical anymore when these fundamental parts aren't answered doesn't move the argument anywhere. Skeptics don't deny that we recovered temperatures since the little ice age. It would be a "straw man" argument since all the temperature data show an increase since the 1800s. We question how much of it is man made and if there is some man made influence (there must be some) is it really threatening or something we can deal with? Until these questions are answered with more certainty we end up with alarmism again and end of the world scenarios.
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:47 PM   #193
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One way of alleviating the effect of global warming is to get out of this thread and stop posting on it on a permanent basis.
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:42 PM   #194
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One way of alleviating the effect of global warming is to get out of this thread and stop posting on it on a permanent basis.

I agree.

I'm out on the farm tomorrow to cut a few trees down for firewood
this winter.



*I will cut only the dead or dying trees.
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Old 10-22-2011, 12:12 AM   #195
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One way of alleviating the effect of global warming is to get out of this thread and stop posting on it on a permanent basis.
Yeah because politics will disappear if people stop arguing. /sarcasm
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