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Old 08-15-2009, 02:49 PM   #16
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I completely agree that to say "that's what it boils down to for MOST of these people" is pretty extreme.

BUT, I do think that that's what it boils down to for more of these folks than we would like to admit.

Here's the way I see it. There would be a far smaller turnout to the Tea Parties, if Obama was white, and there wouldn't have even been tea parties if McCain had implemented the same exact bailout/stimulous.
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Old 08-15-2009, 02:56 PM   #17
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Ultra extremists and some main stream conservatives just can't swallow that they lost so they are running in outrage and trying to find anything to scream about because they can't believe a black family is in the White House. Yes, that's what it boils down to for most of these people.
Please.
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Otherwise, where's your alternate solution to the mess W made while in office?
Hey, speaking for the "ultra extremists," we were hardly onboard with W's bailouts, Medicare part D and the general escalation in federal spending. Our solution is a reversal of that trend, not an acceleration.
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I just pray that the worst of the worst in these hate groups are not plotting to do something unthinkable, but we all know that's not true. They are and I pray for President O's safety every night, you should too!


Course they haven't started making movies about assassinating President Obama yet have they?
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Sorry if this has been posted previously....but per the Southern Poverty Law Center ( one of the best things about America, founded by the great Morris Dees) says that the number of death threats the President has received has gone up since the election like never before in history. Hate groups are on the rise....
The great Morris Dees? The guy is a huckster.
He and the SPLC have been taken apart by those not-so-conservative magazines Harper's (nov 2000)
The Church of Morris Dees - November, 2000 - Harper's Magazine
and The Nation (april 2009) Alexander Cockburn: King of the Hate Business

As a civil rights organization, they're great fund-raisers.
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:22 PM   #18
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hopefully it doesn't come down to this, but really seems like a select few loudmouths are really trying to influence the less educated in this country.

Not that the left hasn't played down, but ever since GWB it really seems as though the right has played this tactic perfectly.

They make it seem like it's WRONG to have a education. To want to know the truth and the facts, even if it means your initial opinion is incorrect.


the real problem is that the GOP has no leaders. the party is shattered.

the new leaders aren't elected officials but Rush, Hannity, Beck, and Coulter.

it's an industry.
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:32 PM   #19
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Please.
Hey, speaking for the "ultra extremists," we were hardly onboard with W's bailouts, Medicare part D and the general escalation in federal spending. Our solution is a reversal of that trend, not an acceleration.
Yet you didn't organize or do a thing, speaks volumes.


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Course they haven't started making movies about assassinating President Obama yet have they?
You all love that example. A movie that all of us leftists got together and make yet not one of went to go see it.

Quit letting Hannity make your points for you.
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:45 PM   #20
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The continuing right vs left slugfest in here pretty much demonstrates Celente's point is lost in the noise.
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Old 08-15-2009, 04:00 PM   #21
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The continuing right vs left slugfest in here pretty much demonstrates Celente's point is lost in the noise.
Absolutely
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Old 08-15-2009, 05:34 PM   #22
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The continuing right vs left slugfest in here pretty much demonstrates Celente's point is lost in the noise.
I don't think FYM represent's the normal left vs right.

BUT that being said maybe in regard's to Celente's point you are correct.

I think the left is almost fairly represented in here. We have a few extreme left(although they may not post all that much), fair amount of middle road left, and some that are closer to the moderate line but with more left leanings.

But I don't think the right is that fairly represented. You have one or two that are closer to the moderate line but with more right leanings, you have a few middle road right( but every once in awhile they have a belief that doesn't coincide with the American definiton of right), but then I think we have a handful of very vocal far right(well at least they are now, but they will tow the line of the party if there's a moderate there). And then we have those that can't make up their mind if they are conservatives or neo-cons.

I think the "slug fest" happening in America today is the left vs the vocal yet pretty small yet organized far right. So for once FYM is sorta representative of what's going on in the outside world.
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Old 08-15-2009, 07:40 PM   #23
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It's a fucking mess simply because no one talks about the issues. Every single mention of socialism is absurd and distracts. Every mention of race is absurd and distracts. If we could step back and look at the issues, this would be a much, much different story. But everyone's in complete fucking hysterics because of the economy, so every reaction is exaggerated and based on emotion, instead of thought-out and based on reality.

To the left: you've allowed people to completely distract from the actual issues at hand. By losing control of this, you're being extremely counter-productive.

To the right: you've allowed extremists like Glenn Beck to convince people that this issue is socialism vs. democracy, which is pure propaganda and fear tactics and is not only counter-productive, but is evil.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:20 PM   #24
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It's a fucking mess simply because no one talks about the issues. Every single mention of socialism is absurd and distracts. Every mention of race is absurd and distracts. If we could step back and look at the issues, this would be a much, much different story. But everyone's in complete fucking hysterics because of the economy, so every reaction is exaggerated and based on emotion, instead of thought-out and based on reality.
Well said.

The general discontent with and mistrust of government right now is the culmination of fuck ups by both parties over the current and previous few administrations and it is narrow-minded to think it is limited to far right sore losers or other fringe elements.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:51 PM   #25
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I honestly believe making this right vs left issue entirely about race to be quite dangerous.

I don't know that's it's dangerous, but I do agree that the extent that opposition to Obama is race-based is hard to pin down. I think it's a waste of time and a poor argument to insist that the opposition to Obama is mainly about race, even if there is some truth to it.

I maintain though that the way the Right has motivated opposition to health care reform is irresponsible. I have no problem with opposition to the Democrats health care reform. I have concerns about it myself. (Did anybody see Newsweek's article on the 7 falsehoods about health care reform. They had falsehoods from both sides, and the ones on the Dems side mostly had to do with money. They say it's going to pay for itself--nonsense. I don't believe that anymore than I believed Saddam Hussein posed an imminent danger to our country).

But either the Republicans have allowed, or actively promoting a type of oppositon to the plan that is not solution-oriented, that is not reason-based. It IS rooted in emotional appeals and ignorance and I think that is shame.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:14 PM   #26
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I don't believe that anymore than I believed Saddam Hussein posed an imminent danger to our country).
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:58 AM   #27
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Every political group thinks that its oppressed by every other political group more than any other political group. Then they claim to have massive popular support (even if their supporters are often unaware that they are the groups' supporters) and mindlessly spit OMG WE ARE MAKING A REVOLUTION crap even though all the political groups are really the same exact thing.
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:12 AM   #28
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^ That's generally true in the scheme of things, IMO, but it also makes it easy to overlook that the climate now is not at all business as usual.

The article suggests that the revolution will be a fundamental shift in the political landscape and I tend to agree. If the two sides are divided too deep, there will have to be a third option that emerges at some point.
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:15 AM   #29
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^ That's generally true in the scheme of things, IMO, but it also makes it easy to overlook that the climate now is not at all business as usual.
Actually, I would call it exactly business as usual, just with slightly different circumstances. People will always be people. People will always want what is in their perceived best interests, and people will always be willing to manipulate other peoples' perceptions of their best interests to achieve that.

Altruism is a farce.
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:28 AM   #30
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just with slightly different circumstances.
My point was that it is the circumstances that are not business as usual, otherwise I would agree that people are people and their reactions to a given situation can be fairly constant and predictable.
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