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Old 05-03-2013, 10:54 AM   #61
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Now there's a thoughtful response. I'll reply when I get home and have a bit more time.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:24 PM   #62
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This was pretty passive aggressive itself. If he wants to act like a jerk, I'm happy to treat him like one
And that's the problem.
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:32 PM   #63
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It is the same argument.

Perhaps this is too simplistic, but my view is that there are peaceful, law-abiding gun owners around the world. I know many of them. So why is gun violence such an issue in the U.S.? I'd say there are many factors to this growing gun culture, but misinterpretation of the Second Amendment is one of them.

As mentioned previously, there are millions of peaceful, law-abiding Muslims in Western countries, including Canada and the United States. They've integrated well into society, and are just going about their lives. So what's the difference between these Muslims and those that live a pitiful existence in theocratic and/or totalitarian countries? Hmmm.

I'm not a religious person, but I don't use Muslim's (or Christians, Jews, Hindus etc.) faith against them. A majority are great human beings. I know many, many of these people. Unless, of course, they're all jihadist sleeper agents waiting for the right opportunity to strike. And if anyone believes that, I truly feel sorry for them.
Again, it's cherry picking the parts you want to believe. When you have extremely flawed books that contradict one another, you see exactly what we get.

Christians learned a long time ago they had to ditch the extreme laws/views of the Bible in order to allow a secular society to florish. For the most part this has happened. Still exceptions like trying to change current laws to slant towards a Christian view, but luckily in this country that will not happen.

Middle East does not have the stability, the technology, nor the education as Western countries. So they still cling to bronze age beliefs. Those that leave to find a better life, either realized before they left, or after they arrived to adapt to faith to fit in.

That has to be a difficult task to do. And definitely can lead towards a victim mentality.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:39 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoMac View Post
It is the same argument.

Perhaps this is too simplistic, but my view is that there are peaceful, law-abiding gun owners around the world. I know many of them. So why is gun violence such an issue in the U.S.? I'd say there are many factors to this growing gun culture, but misinterpretation of the Second Amendment is one of them.

As mentioned previously, there are millions of peaceful, law-abiding Muslims in Western countries, including Canada and the United States. They've integrated well into society, and are just going about their lives. So what's the difference between these Muslims and those that live a pitiful existence in theocratic and/or totalitarian countries? Hmmm.

I'm not a religious person, but I don't use Muslim's (or Christians, Jews, Hindus etc.) faith against them. A majority are great human beings. I know many, many of these people. Unless, of course, they're all jihadist sleeper agents waiting for the right opportunity to strike. And if anyone believes that, I truly feel sorry for them.
I'm not denying that there are millions of peaceful, law abiding Muslims. If you read those numbers, they alone imply that even in Egypt, Jordan, ect, there are 20-30% of them. But that doesn't excuse the fact that the majority of them are in favour of sharia law and death for leaving their religion. And it's not just in the middle east. There have been studies done in the UK that have shown upwards of 40% of Muslims living there are in support of it (people who we're supposed to believe aren't part of this socio-economic... whatever it is).
People are so afraid to criticize religion. All it is is a set of beliefs. They aren't magical. They aren't infallible. They aren't immune to ridicule. You don't need to treat it with any more respect than you would any other set of non religious beliefs. And you certainly don't have to take it as an all or nothing deal. You're allowed to criticize parts of their beliefs while not having an issue with the rest (a more honest stance than the blanket "the religion isn't violent").
Without question, the Quran is a violent book. It preaches violence. You can't deny that. So the only leg you have to stand on is that there are millions of muslims (some of who you know) who don't believe in the violent bits. But another undeniable fact is that the vast majority support the violence. So we've got a violent book being supported by the majority of its faithful, yet we'll pretend there's nothing violent about the religion? It makes no sense to me.
And you can have a shitty belief system and not be a bad person. For all his (admittedly magnified on the forum) poor values, I'm relatively certain that Indy is a good person. I recently watched a documentary called God Loves Uganda (fantastic. Check it out) about the missionaries in Uganda that are completely fucking up their society. Are they doing it maliciously? With the exception of a few, no; they think they're doing good (and even in the case of the few, they think they're doing good). But their shitty morals are having a detrimental effect. Similarly, I'm not saying 80% of muslims are savages. I'm saying that their religion is savage and it absolutely has an affect on a large number of their population. As Sam Harris so clearly pointed out, Islam doesn't have the benefit of a reformed version of their religion (not yet). It is what it is. Take it or leave it
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Old 05-04-2013, 02:36 PM   #65
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...?utm_hp_ref=tw
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Old 05-04-2013, 06:08 PM   #66
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Fantastic article!
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Old 05-04-2013, 07:45 PM   #67
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It is an interesting article.

And this John Adams quote in the article bears repeating:

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As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext, arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:55 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
Middle East does not have the stability, the technology, nor the education as Western countries. So they still cling to bronze age beliefs.
Bronze Age - spanning different epochs from around 3200-1200BC
Islam - circa 610AD

Forgive me, I had to do this.

Bronze Age beliefs would probably be better than some of the shit around in particular countries. But I don't think that the broad concept of Islam is to blame so much as certain strains of Islam that have arisen since the 19th century. There hasn't been a steady stream of progress or devolution, rather it's been up and down for centuries.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:54 AM   #69
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In Beal's defense, Islam was just an extension of Christianity, which was just an extension of Judaism. There was little intellectual growth from its Bronze Age ancestry. One could argue Islam was actually a step backward
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:03 PM   #70
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It was derived from the other two religions. In fact a good portion of the Koran is just plagiarized from the other two holy books.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:21 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sad Punk

Bronze Age - spanning different epochs from around 3200-1200BC
Islam - circa 610AD

Forgive me, I had to do this.

Bronze Age beliefs would probably be better than some of the shit around in particular countries. But I don't think that the broad concept of Islam is to blame so much as certain strains of Islam that have arisen since the 19th century. There hasn't been a steady stream of progress or devolution, rather it's been up and down for centuries.
Maybe not Bronze Age like in terms of technology, but certainly with society - especially with women

Then again, the Islamic world was far ahead of Europe during the Middle Ages in science and technology. Now it has switched. I've read plenty of articles where Muslims insist they are superior because of their inventions and developments centuries ago. They also blame the West for not being able to do so now. While it may be true, the West is not to blame for every single problem in their world. I get the impression that there is a lot of victimization going on with Muslims because the world is not going their way.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:45 PM   #72
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I don't think religion is the issue. As others have stated colonialism and economics are real issues. However, religion has been used as a tool by those with an agenda against the west.
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Old 05-05-2013, 12:49 PM   #73
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You should read the article Beal posted, Trojanchick
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:06 PM   #74
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I have been looking at this thread since it began. I hesitate to jump in, I read many things I agree with, or have believed in the past. Lately i find my opinions on religion being more tolerant.

I believe the three great religions are not that great for many people. I also believe they are all connected.

Quote:
Islam was just an extension of Christianity, which was just an extension of Judaism.


That's correct with the addition of extension with some re-purposing.

Christianity and Islam are built on the foundation of what we in the west call the Old Testament and to be fair Judaism.

And I don't understand how some people call themselves Christians and say they only follow or need the New Testament, that the Old Testament may just be a book with a lot of fables or allegories.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:59 PM   #75
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Is this peaceful ????????????????

Attacked on Stage in Dubai
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