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Old 05-01-2013, 07:26 AM   #46
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IF it is a religious issue, then how is it that so many devout Muslims can live a peaceful life devoid of any violent tendencies, yet environmentally impacted people like domestic abusers and racists take education and training in order to live peaceful lives devoid of hate?
The same way many Christians pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow and which they deem out of context. We just had a president who stated god talks to him and took us into two horrible wars. We have fundamentalists in our policital systems that are trying to govern by the bible.

Hundreds of years ago Christians were doing the same thing as muslims in regards to violende within society Maybe not in the exact manner, but technology and surroundings were different.

If you were a female and strayed from your family, you were punished by death. If you believed in another god or worse, no god, you were put to death.

At some point (the enlightenment perhaps) Christians realized that this judgmental behavior was not suitable for a secular society.

I agree the west has dabbled in Muslim affairs causing a lot of grief and suffering. But is it really the wests fault that more than half these countries believe someone should be killed for leaving a faith?? I don't think so. That's on their stupid belief system.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:25 AM   #47
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I agree the west has dabbled in Muslim affairs causing a lot of grief and suffering. But is it really the wests fault that more than half these countries believe someone should be killed for leaving a faith?? I don't think so. That's on their stupid belief system.
I am not quite sure how you got this from my post.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:19 AM   #48
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It was more general speaking since the conversation had come up. I should have disconnected it from your quote.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:43 AM   #49
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Here's the thing: You need to be smart enough, nay, honest enough to admit that religion is just a label for different, man made ways of thinking and they have not all been made equally in terms of fairness, peacefulness, usefulness. Defending "religion" is a useless and intellectually dishonest pursuit. "Religion" doesn't mean anything universal, besides a belief in the supernatural. The very act of jumping to "religion's" defense and saying it's not a factor here means that you've compartmentalized religion from all other thought and aren't looking at it rationally. You've predetermined that its practices have some sort of immunity to being the cause societal ills. If instead of apostasy, we discovered that 85% of the citizens of a country believed you should be put to death for leaving a particular political party, you guys wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. It's the label of religion that gives you cold feet and causes your brain to shut down. Religion doesn't mean anything. You've got a irrational set of beliefs that you then slap "oh, and all of these ignorant beliefs were ordered by god" on the end and suddenly it becomes something different to you. At the very least be honest enough to dissect the various beliefs within a religion and be willing to deem some harmful. But no, lets paint it all with the same brush.
And I'll do you a favour and save you the typing power "But Jive Turkey, you do the opposite. You attack religion indiscriminately because it is religion". I do not. I speak out against harmful religions. But you've never heard me rant about the Amish, or Buddhists, or Hindus. I'm smart enough to recognize that religions are not all equally evil; some are downright benign. Do I think the Amish people are wasting their lives? Absolutely. But for the most part, they do so in peace and without inflicting their ignorance on others.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:49 AM   #50
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I agree the west has dabbled in Muslim affairs causing a lot of grief and suffering. But is it really the wests fault that more than half these countries believe someone should be killed for leaving a faith?? I don't think so. That's on their stupid belief system.
Ya, relating this particular study to the dabbling by the west is completely dishonest and another kneejerk reaction (troubles in the middle east? Must be the west and socio-economics). We're not talking about terrorism. We're talking about the religiously sanctioned murder of former Muslims by Muslims. It's got nothing to do with the west.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:32 AM   #51
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Realist? You guys turn in to cowering pussies when the word religion is brought up.
Whereas you turn into such a gentleman at the mention of religion?

Jesus, JT, tone it down.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #52
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"I know many Muslims and they're able to lead peaceful lives. It's not the religion"

"I know many gun owners and they're peaceful, law abiding citizens. It's not the guns"

Is this not essentially the same argument? Interesting how for some people, one seems reasonable, while the other irrational. A little consistency would be nice
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:37 PM   #53
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"I know many Muslims and they're able to lead peaceful lives. It's not the religion"

"I know many gun owners and they're peaceful, law abiding citizens. It's not the guns"

Is this not essentially the same argument? Interesting how for some people, one seems reasonable, while the other irrational. A little consistency would be nice
Weapons = Religion

Clever commentary or just a really poor analogy?
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:44 PM   #54
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Weapons = Religion

Clever commentary or just a really poor analogy?
Another fantastic job by bvs of not addressing anything whatsoever. Surely you've got at least a couple brain cells you can rub together for us Yes, you're right; words are different from machines. which is a pretty intellectually simplistic rebuttal. Do better
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:47 PM   #55
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That's pretty much what I expected
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:13 AM   #56
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You expected someone taking the high road? I'm not going to lower myself to answering insults of intelligence taunts. Sorry, but it means nothing. Hell, I may have used those tactics myself in the past, but no longer. I'm just trying to move beyond all that.
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:47 AM   #57
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Then you might want to cut the drive-by douche bag comments too. You add nothing to the dialog. If you've got no intention in properly addressing a post, don't engage
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:58 AM   #58
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Then you might want to cut the drive-by douche bag comments too. You add nothing to the dialog. If you've got no intention in properly addressing a post, don't engage
JT, you need to cool it with the insults. Your tone has been way too abrasive lately.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:46 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by BVS

Weapons = Religion

Clever commentary or just a really poor analogy?
This was pretty passive aggressive itself. If he wants to act like a jerk, I'm happy to treat him like one
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:49 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Jive Turkey View Post
"I know many Muslims and they're able to lead peaceful lives. It's not the religion"

"I know many gun owners and they're peaceful, law abiding citizens. It's not the guns"

Is this not essentially the same argument? Interesting how for some people, one seems reasonable, while the other irrational. A little consistency would be nice
It is the same argument.

Perhaps this is too simplistic, but my view is that there are peaceful, law-abiding gun owners around the world. I know many of them. So why is gun violence such an issue in the U.S.? I'd say there are many factors to this growing gun culture, but misinterpretation of the Second Amendment is one of them.

As mentioned previously, there are millions of peaceful, law-abiding Muslims in Western countries, including Canada and the United States. They've integrated well into society, and are just going about their lives. So what's the difference between these Muslims and those that live a pitiful existence in theocratic and/or totalitarian countries? Hmmm.

I'm not a religious person, but I don't use Muslim's (or Christians, Jews, Hindus etc.) faith against them. A majority are great human beings. I know many, many of these people. Unless, of course, they're all jihadist sleeper agents waiting for the right opportunity to strike. And if anyone believes that, I truly feel sorry for them.
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