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Old 07-09-2013, 09:09 PM   #226
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Suffering mongering dungeoness
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:11 PM   #227
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But I'm not wrong in saying that the beatification process requires the fulfillment of two miracles, correct?
Yep, I think it's 2 for beatification and 3 for sainthood?
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:16 PM   #228
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Yep, I think it's 2 for beatification and 3 for sainthood?
Ok. I thought two got you on track for sainthood too. But my original point still stands, even if my interpretation of the manifestation of said miracle was incorrect
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:33 PM   #229
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Well it's at least interesting that John XXIII gets something of a joint gong with JPII; I gather both are being put up at the same time. That one was rather longer in the making, it would seem. Personally, I'd read it as a nice political move as much as anything else, appealing to both 'liberals' and 'conservatives' (or befuddling both).

My personal view on sainthood is rather 'meh', and it would probably make most sense to see it as something of a post mortem knighthood of the church. Fair enough (depending on the candidate). The miracle business is an area where the church does descend into mumbo jumbo that I can't be bothered with. Not to say that unexplainable apparent miracles never, ever occur, or appear to occur... but the question of who interceded with whom... or what... is not one we can pretend to know the answer to.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:39 PM   #230
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Well it's at least interesting that John XXIII gets something of a joint gong with JPII; I gather both are being put up at the same time. That one was rather longer in the making, it would seem. Personally, I'd read it as a nice political move as much as anything else, appealing to both 'liberals' and 'conservatives' (or befuddling both).

My personal view on sainthood is rather 'meh', and it would probably make most sense to see it as something of a post mortem knighthood of the church. Fair enough (depending on the candidate). The miracle business is an area where the church does descend into mumbo jumbo that I can't be bothered with. Not to say that unexplainable apparent miracles never, ever occur, or appear to occur... but the question of who interceded with whom... or what... is not one we can pretend to know the answer to.
well balanced answer
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:40 PM   #231
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On the one hand, guys, but on the other hand... I'm just having a bet each way.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:42 PM   #232
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Pascal would be proud
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:34 PM   #233
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But tell us how you really feel, JT.
I'd agree with JT on that front as well.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:40 PM   #234
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I like the episode of How I Met Your Mother where a pencil gets stuck in Barney's nose and Marshall tells Robin it's evidence that miracles happen.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:43 PM   #235
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I think Mother Teresa was misguided and a fanatic. That could be because she entered the convent as a teenager and stayed in the clutches of the Catholic Church from then until the end of her life. It's like she never really had the chance to think on her own and be able to realize she wasn't being as compassionate as she thought, and not realize the Vatican was using her to make the Church look good. I'm not saying she was a victim or was dense. I think she was so molded - and was willing to be molded -to obey the Church and it's teachings, she was unable to think in anyway else.

I also want to add that Mother Teresa was one of the people who inspired me to actually give a damn about people suffering, social issues and what was going on in the world. When she died and TV news was showing her speaking about caring for the poor, it made me feel guilty that I wasn't doing enough to help those in need. Even when Princess Diana died and the media talked about her charity work, I started to feel guilty that I didn't care for those less fortunate. Since those two died within days of each other, and the media was praising their charity work so much during then, that changed me. These days, I no longer see those two as near saints, and I see them in more realistic terms. But they did influence me in a good way.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:50 PM   #236
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That still makes her an asshole of biblical proportions
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:52 PM   #237
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That still makes her an asshole of biblical proportions
It does, and I'm not defending her. It kinda sucks knowing someone who inspired you to be a better person wasn't so great themselves.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:58 PM   #238
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Well if it helps, it was the falsely constructed image of her that inspired you. The attributes you thought you knew are still real things and attainable. They don't need to be attached to a real person to inspire. But still, I get that it must bum you out
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:55 PM   #239
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But still, I get that it must bum you out
I got bummed out when Bono got a Maserati.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:04 AM   #240
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Speaking of miracles... apparently Pope Francis has eschewed the custom beemers, benzes and fanciness for a Ford Focus... a used Ford Focus. Nice quote from Francis:

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“It hurts me when I see a priest or a nun with the latest model car; you can’t do this. A car is necessary to do a lot of work, but please, choose a more humble one. If you like the fancy one, just think about how many children are dying of hunger in the world.”
Might not agree with a lot of his stances, but I like what I've seen so far. The Catholic Church could use a healthy dose of humility.
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