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Old 11-14-2012, 03:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen View Post
I do blame the women for having affairs and flirtations with married men. The generals, however, are not victims. Victims of their own egos and power trips and inability to resist- yes. That kind of victim, yes.
Why can't we blame both parties? It takes two to tango. I know you're blaming the men for not being able to resist, but why even differentiate? Why not blame the women for getting involved with a married man, and blaming the men for stepping outside their marriages?

Edit: I see you did clarify, so never mind ... but it bears repeating in general.

This whole thing is just embarrassing for all involved. Hope you had fun with your sexy shenanigans, because you sure look like a bunch of idiots now.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:19 PM   #17
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assigning the right proportion of blame is difficult

if it is 80 - 20, whoever is at 20 had the ability to stop it completely by not participating

if these men are serial cheaters, then I put them at the more responsible part, if these women are serial flirts, and groupie types, that puts a higher proportion on them

regardless, the entrapment defense, does not come into play if one walks away from the entrapment. Both of these men, to whatever extent they crossed the line are resposible for their own actions. I don't see either of these women as victims, they seem to be in control of their own actions and were not pressured in any way.

Of course if more information comes out, I may revise these opinions.





I'm not as old as these gentlemen, but if these women twisted my
arm, it wood be hard to stop them.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:23 PM   #18
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Percentages of blame for cheating? Really?
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:27 PM   #19
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each willing participant is 100% at fault for their own actions

the point was who initiated it, or tempted the other party, not that that should matter.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:00 PM   #20
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I always find it fascinating for the men in these situations (because typically it is a high-powered, influential man who is involved in the scandal and the woman is not on the same socio-economic level). You have a guy like Petraeus who is by all accounts intelligent, eloquent, very accomplished and generally respected as a leader and he gives all that up for a few romps in the sack? I mean we are not talking about a 20-year affair where he fell in love with someone and carried on a real and meaningful relationship on the side. We are talking about a fling.

I know that sex is not at all a rational thing, but if he had just stepped back and committed 5 minutes of thought to the potential consequences, would he still have done the same thing? Was the sex worth all this trouble and public humiliation for his family? How stupid.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:10 PM   #21
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This takes a look at why some men do this:


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What is unclear is why. Is sex so fundamentally different for each gender that men see it as exerting their influence, while women somehow succumb to it? Have we simply not reached the point where there are enough women in positions of power, a critical mass that will make cheating an equal opportunity perk of office -- men do this because they can, and women don't because they can't...yet? Or are women just more moral than men?
The answer is probably all of the above, none of the above, and it is much more complicated than that. If -- when -- the scales balance (the last election was a good start) we will likely learn that it isn't just sex that means different things to men and women, but also power.
Until then, the parade of cheating men will inevitably march on.
Lisa Belkin: Why Petraeus And Other Powerful Men Cheat

I've heard that being in a position of power makes some men think they need to have a woman who is like a sycophant and worships their egos, because their wives aren't doing that. I've also heard having a mistress is another way to further prove their power after they've achieved so much.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:12 PM   #22
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Percentages of blame for cheating? Really?


i'd like to see that algorithm.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:14 PM   #23
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I know that sex is not at all a rational thing, but if he had just stepped back and committed 5 minutes of thought to the potential consequences, would he still have done the same thing? Was the sex worth all this trouble and public humiliation for his family? How stupid.

we should ask this guy:






i think the thing is that no one thinks they're going to get caught.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:25 PM   #24
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Yeah, for sure that is part of it. You'd think the head of the CIA could at least not get caught.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:46 PM   #25
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Speaking of the CIA ... nice new avatar, Irvine. Ha!
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:29 PM   #26
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Claire's cry-face gets funnier every time I see it.

And I thought Homeland was really overrated.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:43 PM   #27
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You're off my Christmas gift list.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:06 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
I've heard that being in a position of power makes some men think they need to have a woman who is like a sycophant and worships their egos, because their wives aren't doing that. I've also heard having a mistress is another way to further prove their power after they've achieved so much.
And if that is true (which I'm inclined to believe it is), to that I simply say this: Get over yourselves, guys.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:28 PM   #29
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I blame both parties equally, just to make that clear.

I think the fact that she's 20 years younger is a major factor too. That's part of the ego trip.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:18 AM   #30
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Petraeus and the Rise of Narcissistic Leaders - Jeffrey Pfeffer - Harvard Business Review

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What to make of the confluence of General Petraeus resigning as head of the CIA and Christopher Kubasik, vice chairman, president, and COO of Lockheed also resigning — both for having affairs — within days of each other? Certainly not the first men to be brought down by an inability to control their impulses — these recent examples join a long list including John Edwards, Bill Clinton, and Harry Stonecipher of Boeing.

There is a simple power story often told about such behavior: research shows that people with more power tend to pay less attention to others. They are more action-oriented, pursue their own goals, and exhibit disinhibited behavior in part because they believe that rules don't apply to them; they are special and invulnerable.

All of this is true, but nonetheless leaves at least a couple of questions unanswered. First, as my friend Bob Sutton noted in a conversation, these behaviors seem to be confined mostly to men. We seldom hear of powerful women who can't control their urges. Second, it at least feels as if this sort of behavior and the career consequences that result seem to be occurring more frequently now. Maybe that is because of more public scrutiny and the operation of social media. But maybe something else is going on — namely we are choosing more narcissistic leaders and the misbehavior is not just the consequence of power but also of excessive narcissism.

First, a definition: narcissistic leaders, as research by Stanford colleague Charles O'Reilly and colleagues notes, are characterized by the traits of dominance, self-confidence, a sense of entitlement, grandiosity, and low empathy. As Michael Maccoby pointed out in The Productive Narcissist, many well-known, even iconic leaders such as Martha Stewart, Jack Welch, and Bill Gates are almost certainly narcissistic personalities, and narcissism is useful for attaining leadership positions, maintaining power, and even stimulating creativity and innovation. O'Reilly's research on narcissism among Silicon Valley executives shows that narcissistic CEOs earn more, last in their jobs longer, and also have a larger gap between their pay and the pay of their senior team.

Evidence from surveys of college students shows that the level of narcissism has been rising over time — a possible answer for why leaders today are getting into more trouble than in the past. And examinations of the structure of narcissism and how narcissistic behavior differs between men and women helps explain the gender imbalance: "Past research suggests that exploitive tendencies and open displays of feelings of entitlement will be less integral to narcissism for females than for males" simply because women face more social constraints and social sanctions for grandiosity and self-aggrandizement than do men.

And while narcissism and the associated behaviors may indeed help people ascend into leadership roles, as recent experience suggests, narcissistic individuals also contain the seeds of their own (self)-destruction. And leaders' downfalls are costly — Lockheed now has to find another person to assume the CEO role, and President Obama must find someone to take over the CIA. So while indeed there are productive narcissists, narcissistic behavior can be very unproductive for both the work organizations and the people who experience it.
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