the new poverty: $68K a year or less

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Irvine511

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yes, if you make under $68K a year, you're not making enough to get by:

Many Low-Wage Jobs Seen as Failing to Meet Basic Needs
By MOTOKO RICH

Hard as it can be to land a job these days, getting one may not be nearly enough for basic economic security.

The Labor Department will release its monthly snapshot of the job market on Friday, and economists expect it to show that the nation’s employers added about 190,000 jobs in March. With an unemployment rate that has been stubbornly stuck near 9 percent, those workers could be considered lucky.

But many of the jobs being added in retail, hospitality and home health care, to name a few categories, are unlikely to pay enough for workers to cover the cost of fundamentals like housing, utilities, food, health care, transportation and, in the case of working parents, child care.

A separate report being released Friday tries to go beyond traditional measurements like the poverty line and minimum wage to show what people need to earn to achieve a basic standard of living.

The study, commissioned by Wider Opportunities for Women, a nonprofit group, builds on an analysis the group and some state and local partners have been conducting since 1995 on how much income it takes to meet basic needs without relying on public subsidies. The new study aims to set thresholds for economic stability rather than mere survival, and takes into account saving for retirement and emergencies.

“We wanted to recognize that there was a cumulative impact that would affect one’s lifelong economic security,” said Joan A. Kuriansky, executive director of Wider Opportunities, whose report is called “The Basic Economic Security Tables for the United States.” “And we’ve all seen how often we have emergencies that we are unprepared for,” she said, especially during the recession. Layoffs or other health crises “can definitely begin to draw us into poverty.”

According to the report, a single worker needs an income of $30,012 a year — or just above $14 an hour — to cover basic expenses and save for retirement and emergencies. That is close to three times the 2010 national poverty level of $10,830 for a single person, and nearly twice the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour.

A single worker with two young children needs an annual income of $57,756, or just over $27 an hour, to attain economic stability, and a family with two working parents and two young children needs to earn $67,920 a year, or about $16 an hour per worker.

That compares with the national poverty level of $22,050 for a family of four. The most recent data from the Census Bureau found that 14.3 percent of Americans were living below the poverty line in 2009.

Wider Opportunities and its consulting partners saw a need for an index that would indicate how much families need to earn if, for example, they want to save for their children’s college education or for a down payment on a home.

“It’s an index that asks how can a family have a little grasp at the middle class,” said Michael Sherraden, director of the Center for Social Development at Washington University in St. Louis, who consulted on the project and helped develop projections for how much income families need to devote to savings. “If we’re interested in families being able to be stable and not have their lives disrupted and have a little protection and backup and be able to educate their children, then this is the way we have to think.”


or, as aptly, and snarkily, summed up by Wonkette:

Have you been laboring under the delusion that you’re still part of the tiny, rapidly vanishing Middle Class? Happy April Fools Day! A new study proves that a family of four needs $67,920 a year (pre-tax) to survive in America. And that’s basic: no vacations, no fancy dinners, no wine tastings, no fun-box deliveries from Amazon or Zappos or whatever every couple of months to break up the crushing monotony of work and eventual death. You will, however, spend an average of $12,000 a year on car insurance and payments on your crappy mid-sized sedan, because we don’t have much in the way of public transportation in this country. And you’ll spend another $12,000 a year on child care, because we don’t like to provide socialism in these parts, ha ha. Freedom isn’t free, after all.

Not much left after $12,000 a year in rent and utilities, either. Don’t forget to pay $9,000 in taxes on that $67,920! Who do you think you are, General Electric?

The median household income in the United States is $52,029 — nearly $16,000 shy of what it actually costs to keep your head above water if you’ve got a two-income two-child household.

[...]

Yes, families of four are most certainly living in abject poverty at $22,050 a year. And they’re still a few paychecks away from disaster at $50,000 or $60,000 a year. Of course there are regional variations here, with big city housing costing the most and energy bills highest where the weather is extreme and the cost of living often being lower where there are, uh, no jobs or schools or anything. As for you single people, the government says anything beyond $10,830 means you’re not in poverty. This new study gives a more realistic number, based on the actual cost of basic shelter and food and electricity and getting to your shitty job if you’re lucky enough to have a shitty job: $30,012 a year. It almost seems like enough until you start paying for groceries and rent ….

If you’re in the top 20% of income earners in this country, you’re doing better with $180,000 in annual income — but not so much better that you feel especially comfortable, and you’re relatively free from the danger of being “rich.” We reserve that special category for the 1% who control 70% of the wealth in this country and have household incomes above $400,000. (And because it’s a day of such mirth and fun, we will not even type the household income levels for the top tenth of a percent.)

So we are now officially living in a country where more than 60% of households are not making enough money for a basic household — the bottom three quintiles of American household income top out at $62,000.

Household Income Short of $68K? Welcome To the New Poverty




have a great weekend!
 
I thought they meant for a single person with no kids, and I was all Holy shit, I'm poor!

I do all right for myself (although I should save more), but it frightens me to think of trying to support a family (or even one other person) on what I make.

Very scary.
 
It's $30,012, the $68K is for a two-parent home with two children.

The $30,012 doesn't sound that surprising to me. I don't know how you'd live on that around here in the first place. Maybe if you had 5 roommates and lived in the ghetto.
 
I'd feel like a billionaire if I was earning 68k :lol:

Haha I know. When I went up to about $40k, I felt like I was living like a king.

Also, this small comment in the article really leapt out at me:

the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour.

I mean holy shit, really? That's all? It's $15 in Australia ... or on today's exchange rates, that's US$15.58.
 
yep. about four states have minimum wage below the federal limit, plus waiters earn a lot less. it varies by state (damn state governments) but in tennessee at least, they earn $2.13 per hour - everyone else earns the federal minimum.

i've worked a lot of jobs in america but i never earned $15.58 per hour. sure as hell never made enough to live anywhere decent on my own. apartments in memphis ran approx. $1 per sq ft (roughly 0.9 sq m) in any area not overrun by crime which was just too expensive with only one salary. i can't even imagine what it's like for those who live in bigger cities where cost of living is even higher.
 
yep. about four states have minimum wage below the federal limit, plus waiters earn a lot less. it varies by state (damn state governments) but in tennessee at least, they earn $2.13 per hour - everyone else earns the federal minimum.

$2.13?! Woah, that's obscene. I suppose it's offset a bit by the culture of tipping there that is simply non-existent in Australia (though I think it's abhorrent that workers can be paid such non-wages in the expectation tipping will cover for the employer's stinginess).

I must admit, I don't quite understand how states can be allowed to set minimum wages below the federal limit, but I'm guessing it's part of the "states' rights" thing that makes US states much more powerful than Australian states?

Also, I suppose it's worth noting that back when the Aussie minimum wage was around $12-13 a decade ago, our exchange rate with the US$ was so utterly shitty that the comparison would've been much less flattering than what I can post today - indeed, around 2001-02, even AUS$15 would have been worth barely any more than US$7.25.
 
$2.13?! Woah, that's obscene. I suppose it's offset a bit by the culture of tipping there that is simply non-existent in Australia (though I think it's abhorrent that workers can be paid such non-wages in the expectation tipping will cover for the employer's stinginess).

I must admit, I don't quite understand how states can be allowed to set minimum wages below the federal limit, but I'm guessing it's part of the "states' rights" thing that makes US states much more powerful than Australian states?

Also, I suppose it's worth noting that back when the Aussie minimum wage was around $12-13 a decade ago, our exchange rate with the US$ was so utterly shitty that the comparison would've been much less flattering than what I can post today - indeed, around 2001-02, even AUS$15 would have been worth barely any more than US$7.25.
yeah, exactly. i've known several waiters and if it's a good night they make really good money. but i also know what it's like on their bad nights where they can lose money staying around. i must admit though at least for nz, while it is refreshing to walk in, see something's $12 on a menu and only pay $12. no tip or anything. but my god the service is so crap here, so while i do wish employers paid waiters more, at least you generally get good service there.

and i know! i haaaaate the whole federal vs. state thing. maybe they thought it was a good idea in the 1770s when we were trying to basically not be like the uk, but jesus. or maybe it's just my opinion, i dunno, but to me the federal government is the big cheese, the ruler of the land. plus it's just fucking confusing that laws can differ from state to state and all that shit. i hate it.
 
Khan, I'm worried that in replying to your post, I'll steer this thread wildly off-topic into a discussion on tipping and restaurant service! :lol:
 
I was more shocked by tax not being a part of the item's cost in the States. Like here, a $20 jacket is $20. Over there a $20 jacket could be $22 or something.
 
I was more shocked by tax not being a part of the item's cost in the States. Like here, a $20 jacket is $20. Over there a $20 jacket could be $22 or something.

Oh that drove me fucking insane. I expect the price on the label to be the price I pay!
 
Don't forget about how expensive health care is in the U.S., too.
Illness = Bankruptcy here.

OMG, I hope the revolution comes soon. Class warfare has been going on for decades, and it's time for the lower class to fight back in the U.S.
 
Wow, my family's income is that, and I own my own home, have a car that is paid off, and support 2 kids. We travel a lot too. I guess it is all relative though. I live in Canada, so health care isn't an issue for me. As well, the cost of living in my town it low. We don't go without at all. I guess my money management skills come into play too.

I cannot believe the minimum wage is $15 in Australia. That is great!:up: It is around $10 here I think.

As for taxes, we are taxed on EVERYTHING!!!!! I would love the sticker price on things to be what we pay. The taxes on our utilities make me stabby!!:angry: It is the taxes and fees on airfare that really sucks. Why can they not just list the full price????
 
Probably a psychological marketing thing...you go oooh look that is so cheap...then you go pay for it and find out it cost's $10 more and due to social embarrassment you refuse to go "I can't really afford that".

The only things I can think of in the UK where tax is added after is the odd tech website.
 
As for taxes, we are taxed on EVERYTHING!!!!! I would love the sticker price on things to be what we pay. The taxes on our utilities make me stabby!!:angry: It is the taxes and fees on airfare that really sucks. Why can they not just list the full price????

so are we, but it's always included in the price. it sounds like false advertising to me :scratch:
 
Some of the comments after that article on Wonkette made me laugh out loud!

"Happy Friday! I'm dollars above poverty! Where my food stamps at? Can I use them to purchase boxes of wine? "

:lol:


"The solution to this is obvious. Sell the damn kids into slavery. Or, better yet, harvest their organs one by one. There's cash in them there kidneys, folks. CHOP CHOP. "
:lol:
"Wow, thanks Ken. Thought I might have to make it through the weekend without meds or liquor. No worries now! "

"Such whiners these Americans are -- the LORD gave you two kidneys for a reason, people! "


It is a sad and scary situation here in the US. But if nothing else we still have a sense of humor! :hug:
 
Speaking of class warfare and health costs in the US...
Ok, I admit it. I am in debt up to my eyeballs because I have to pay out of pocket for my doctor visits even though I am fairly healthy and considered to be fortunate because I work for a fortune 500 company. I "supposedly" have GREAT benefits (and I do in some cases) but not when it comes to health insurance. Our health benefits changed a few years ago and now I have to pay a $1500. deductable before the insurance kicks in, so every doctor visit, blood test, ect...for check ups is out of my pocket. I got a lab bill ( I have to get blood work done to check my thyroid hormones periodically) and it cost me almost $1000.00!!. I am still paying for it. Plus, I go to a Naturalpath and insurance doesn't cover Np's. They are considered too radical because they don't play with the big drug companies and yet my NP does more for my health than any traditional doctor ever could because she treats the whole person; mind, body, spirit and doesn't throw drugs at me based on profit margins.

So even writing that I feel guilty for whining because I have a decent job at least and other benefits others would envy. Don't get me wrong, I am very grateful everyday for my blessings but this country is so out of whack, the greed mantra of the Ceo's is just astonishing, including the CEO of my own company ( he is very well known) !! It just makes me sad and mad. Doesn't anyone have a conscience anymore? How do they sleep at night when so many are suffering? And they will never be punished because campaign finance reform will never come to pass. To me that is THE only issue. If big money got out of politicians pockets perhaps we'd have some real hope.
 
It's $30,012, the $68K is for a two-parent home with two children.

The $30,012 doesn't sound that surprising to me. I don't know how you'd live on that around here in the first place. Maybe if you had 5 roommates and lived in the ghetto.

Manhattan salaries are artificially inflated by the FIRE economy, and more, recently, government bailout.
 
Too many other factors at play, namely, cost of living depending on locale. Phil and I live perfectly comfortably on around $68K. Own a nice (in my opinion) home, two vehicles (2004 and 1995). Most of my co-workers have 2+ kids and are in relatively the same boat. Phil and I carry more student debt than most of our peers and it is our largest monthly expense so if you pretended that didn't exist we could probably afford FIVE kids right now. Honestly I feel like if we needed more than $68K to maintain our current lifestyle, we'd be doing something wrong with managing money. :shrug:

For us, the bigger issue (which the quoted part of the article mentions) is that we and most of our peers would be in the "a few paychecks away from disaster" group. If either of us lost our job, we'd be in deep shit. But, we make financial decisions with job security in mind. My employer laid off 6 people (their first layoffs...in their history I think) so we waited until that was over and Phil got his new contract before going ahead with buying the house.
 
so are we, but it's always included in the price. it sounds like false advertising to me :scratch:

I think the point in Canada is that they want you to be aware of the manufacturer's retail price, and the amount that's taxed. You go to the cash register knowing that the sticker price is the manufacturer's price plus retail markup, and that above that, at least in Ontario, you're paying another 13% in provincial and federal sales taxes that will be added on at the cash register. The thing is, we're used to it being this way, just as you're used to paying an all-in-one price. The only difference is that your taxes are hidden in the sticker price, ours aren't. It makes us very aware of the portion we pay to the government. :angry:
 
$15 minimum wage in Australia? Holy hell. I've been working for seven years and have never made more than $10 an hour.
 
so are we, but it's always included in the price. it sounds like false advertising to me :scratch:
it doesn't totally make up for it, but in america they have laws in place where you can't add surcharges if you use a credit card. when i bought my phone, i was shocked that i had to pay another 5% if i wanted to use a credit card. fuck that! in america, even the most expensive items are the same price no matter how you pay. granted like i said it doesn't make up for the tax thing, but yeah.

honestly though the taxes not being in the price never bothered me. sure it's annoying to have to stop and add in sales tax in my head but since i've done it all my life i'm used to it. though it is certainly nice to not have to do it anymore. alternatively, take a trip to one of the states that don't have sales tax (alaska, delaware, montana, oregon) on goods - though alaska and montana do have an optional sales tax cities can charge. but delaware and oregon are truly sales tax-free. plus a lot of states don't charge sales tax on what they consider to be essential goods. for example, some states don't charge sales tax at all on basic clothing item and groceries. that to me is a lot better than 15% gst on every fucking thing like it is here, since with a high sales tax/gst/vat/sat/act, poorer people end up paying a lot more in taxes than the wealthy.
 
at the moment, the australian dollar is almost equal to the us dollar.

europe and her colonies aren't so fucked now, are they?





i read an article the other day that the government in nz was elected partly on the platform of closing the income gap between us and australia. it's actually got worse since those wankers were elected. shit. i'm part of a small group who makes the least amount of money at the company i work at, and i honestly think that my income could easily pay for an apartment/a bit crap house, plus some expenses and bills, with a bit of disposable income remaining.

i love the usa, i've never felt more at home....but shit guys, stop bending over.
 
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