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Old 07-31-2013, 11:45 AM   #16
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Krauss has a new paper coming out soon regarding dark matter and dark energy. He seems pretty excited about it; I'm intrigued
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:45 AM   #17
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But the very core of his argument is that to place a god at the beginning of the universe unneeded and overcomplicated. In that sense, lumping all Christians - and all religious people in general - together is just
That may be the current viewpoint, but that can certainly change with more knowledge. Again, I come from a view that you can not objectively prove God.


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This is a bit of a Deepak Chopra style interpretation of Quantum Physics.
Ouch! I've been Turkey-slapped!


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I don't think you'll find any theoretical physicist who will agree with you.
Perhaps, but if I wanted to spend the time (and maybe I will some day) - I could gather enough of the current quotes on the reality of universe to show that Yes, it is possible or it least not impossible.

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The strangeness of the quantum world doesn't leave the door open for virgin births or miracles.
How could it not?

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Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the video though!
Still making progress...almost there...
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:55 AM   #18
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Ouch! I've been Turkey-slapped!
hahaha sorry. Was a bit harsh


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Perhaps, but if I wanted to spend the time (and maybe I will some day) - I could gather enough of the current quotes on the reality of universe to show that Yes, it is possible or it least not impossible.

How could it not?



Still making progress...almost there...
Because quantum physics only applies to the very small. The macro universe still abides by the same laws it always has. The moon doesn't disappear into a cloud of probabilities when we stop observing it.
I'd be interested in seeing some quotes, however
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:38 PM   #19
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Summary of video: I liked his review of how we came to our present cosmological view. I've seen it from many other presenters and TV shows but he got right to the point and tied it all together very well.

I LOVED his slides on the view of the expanding universe - "Everywhere is the center of the universe"

I think he made my point accidentally when he talked about the priest Lemaitre and the Pope - and to not mix science and religion. Dr. Krauss states that either side of the Does God Exist argument can take science to validate their beliefs. A great point. Strange he doesn't seem to follow his own point.

"Quantum fluctuations can produce a universe" - I did not see how he proved that. Perhaps it's too big of a discussion for his lecture here, but I would like to see how he came to this conclusion. In his own short proof - he does seem to infer pre-existing energy.

There seems to be assumption in this talk that only matter "exists" - that energy somehow does not count. Am I correct? If so, how would this tie into another Quantum Physicist's view, Dr. Susskind (I posted a video from him a few weeks back) - that almost all of the universe is energy, and that all of the actual matter would fit into the size of a pea.

I loved the point that the static of the TV when it went off the air was 1 percent background radiation from the Big Bang. Makes the movie Poltergeist even that much more creepy.

He's covering dark matter and dark energy fairly well - would love to hear more of it.

At about the 49 minute mark, he concedes that the God created view of the universe is repugnant, but may be true. He just kind of tosses it away and moves on, although it is a major concession in my point of view.

Overall, a great way to spend and hour or so. I love these topics. I think we live in a wonderfully mysterious universe and appreciate that minds like Dr. Krauss can reveal a little more of that to us.

In the end, science will never disprove God - nor will it ever prove God. So, when a theorical physicists tries to do it, it comes across more as vindictive. I would rather they just continue to expand our shared understanding of what the universe is and how it works. That's cool.
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:41 PM   #20
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The moon doesn't disappear into a cloud of probabilities when we stop observing it.
Prove it...
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:52 PM   #21
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LOL - I just read the thread title, not realizing we where in a Fox News thread...I guess we got a bit off point.

My original point (in this thread in response to Dr. Aslan's book) was that it seems unlikely that Jesus could be considered a "zealot" when you read the texts about Jesus in the New Testament (like it or not - it is all we have along with a and historian (Josephus) comments). Anything else is simply conjecture. He could have just as easily claimed Jesus was really a Buddhist, or a pirate, or secretly invented baseball in the desert...
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:02 PM   #22
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LOL - I just read the thread title, not realizing we where in a Fox News thread...
Yeah, come on now. This debate is far more intelligent than anything you'd find on Fox.
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Old 07-31-2013, 03:24 PM   #23
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My original point (in this thread in response to Dr. Aslan's book) was that it seems unlikely that Jesus could be considered a "zealot" when you read the texts about Jesus in the New Testament (like it or not - it is all we have along with a and historian (Josephus) comments). Anything else is simply conjecture. He could have just as easily claimed Jesus was really a Buddhist, or a pirate, or secretly invented baseball in the desert...

Not a 'zealot' by our standards in 2013. But part of a movement at that time, in that place. One might benefit from leaning what context Dr. Aslan is using the term.

Much of the point of the book is that there is very little written history of Jesus during his lifetime. The Romans, who did keep records, mention many historical figures, but not Jesus. Jesus was not much of a 'stand out' until many years after his death. And then the writings we have, New Testament, are from people that are in a movement with an agenda.
I will cede the point, that the agenda could be just an accurate and true retelling of the facts.


This is pretty good

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He could have just as easily claimed Jesus was really a Buddhist, or a pirate, or secretly invented baseball in the desert...
Bsck on the FoxNews theme
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:16 PM   #24
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Not a 'zealot' by our standards in 2013. But part of a movement at that time, in that place. One might benefit from leaning what context Dr. Aslan is using the term.

...........

Bsck on the FoxNews theme
1) One (or is it two?) of Jesus' apostles is known as a Zealot.
Simon the Zealot, IIRC.
2) This Jesus/science conversation is infinitely more interesting than FOX News bullshit. So I'd hope it would find it's way to a new thread.
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:29 PM   #25
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Reza's book seems to be pretty well researched. I'd like to find a good book about the origins of Islam, about the times, politics and people. And the main guy, Mohammed.
Reza's book, "No God but God" might be good. There may be others, does anyone have a recommendation?
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:33 PM   #26
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Prove it...
Because it would have profound effects here on Earth.
What you're describing is a nouveau god of the gaps argument
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:39 PM   #27
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1) One (or is it two?) of Jesus' apostles is known as a Zealot.
Simon the Zealot, IIRC.
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:57 PM   #28
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Because it would have profound effects here on Earth.
What you're describing is a nouveau god of the gaps argument

I was just playing with you. I like the sound of nouveau god of the gaps though.
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:58 PM   #29
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2) This Jesus/science conversation is infinitely more interesting than FOX News bullshit.
Can I get an AMEN!
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:03 PM   #30
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I was just playing with you. I like the sound of nouveau god of the gaps though.
Almost like an 80s Christian Band
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