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Old 08-14-2009, 03:32 PM   #376
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I reckon the partially sane wing (I operate on the presumption that neocons are insane until proved otherwise) influenced and lobbied Bush


i think this is true post-Katrina and post-2006 electoral drubbing where Rumsfeld was (finally!) fired.

it's hilarious for some to say that Obama is just following Bush's plan for Iraq, when Bush's plan for Iraq had changed dramatically after 2006, but ignoring this helps some people pretend like this had been the plan all along in 2003 and that everything has gone so smashingly.
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Old 08-14-2009, 08:08 PM   #377
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i think this is true post-Katrina and post-2006 electoral drubbing where Rumsfeld was (finally!) fired.

it's hilarious for some to say that Obama is just following Bush's plan for Iraq, when Bush's plan for Iraq had changed dramatically after 2006, but ignoring this helps some people pretend like this had been the plan all along in 2003 and that everything has gone so smashingly.
Well, lets see what happened after the 2006 elections in which the Democrats re-took the House and Senate.

Did-

A. Bush do what the Democrats wanted which was to withdraw ALL US Combat brigades from Iraq in less than 16 months regardless of conditions on the ground.

B. Give a watered down version of what the Democrats wanted.


C. The exact opposite of what the Democrats wanted and increase the the number of US combat brigades on the ground in Iraq by 33%, sending US force levels in Iraq to their highest levels ever.


The answer is C.

Although there was distance between the Bush administration and Democratic members of congress before the 2006 elections, that distance actually got greater in early 2007 as Bush initiated the Surge, and the Democraticly controlled congress and Barack Obama spent most of 2007 trying to force Bush to do the exact opposite.

The Democrats failed, and further attempts amounted to nothing as the the success of the surge blew away any steam the Democrats had left on that front.

Since 2003, Bush has consistently stayed on the course of "as they stand up, will stand down". Standing up the Iraqi military and government has taken several years, but as it was stated llong ago, provided the United States does not withdraw prematurely from the effort, it will succeed, and as Iraqi military and security forces grow in size and ability, and conditions on the ground improve, US forces can start to be withdrawn.


In January 2007, Barack Obama stated that he would withdraw all 15 US combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008 regardless of conditions on the ground.

Whats funny about that statement is now that he is President starting in January 2009, he is actually KEEPING 14 brigades on the ground in Iraq at least until March of 2010!!!!!

Sorry, but this has never been and will never be, the Obama plan. It couldn't be further from it as shown above. Its the Bush plan and Obama is following it, because it is working!

We don't hear anymore crap about Iraq being a Civil War, not being a country, not having a government, that the "Surge Won't Work" or the "Surge Has Failed", and since becoming President Obama has never used his campaign statement that Iraq was a war that should have never of been fought.

On top of it all, Obama keeps Bush's Secretary Of State, a person who supported the war that he was so opposed to before becoming President. Its the first time in the history of the United States that a new President from the opposing party has kept the previous President's Secretary Of State on the job. Another endorsement that Obama has made on Bush defense and Iraq policy since being elected.

There may still be some people out there that want to defend the idea of leaving Saddam in power in Iraq, but their numbers are getting smaller every day.


Admiral Mike Mullen VS Obama on the Surge





In 2009, its rather clear that Obama is following Bush on Iraq policy.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:22 PM   #378
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Make it stop. Please. Someone.
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Old 08-14-2009, 10:42 PM   #379
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You can always use the Ignore list.
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Old 08-15-2009, 01:19 PM   #380
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Event on Abu Ghraib soldier canceled over threats - Yahoo! News

It's nice to see those that abhor torture embrace violence to get their way.
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Old 08-15-2009, 03:25 PM   #381
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You can always use the Ignore list.


the Ignore List has brought down my blood pressure.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:58 PM   #382
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Event on Abu Ghraib soldier canceled over threats - Yahoo! News

It's nice to see those that abhor torture embrace violence to get their way.
There's nutcakes threatening the life of our president too. You don't hear me eqauting everyone who disagrees with his policies with them, do you?
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Old 08-17-2009, 02:32 PM   #383
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Speaking of Lynndie England, Obama still refuses to review the "American Service-Members' Protection Act (ASPA)", better known as the "The Hague Invasion act", despite of the fact that there's a 400 year of friendship between Holland and the US. (The US want to celebrate it, but Holland's not in the mood)

The act is there "to protect United States military personnel and other elected and appointed officials of the United States government against criminal prosecution by an international criminal court to which the United States is not party". It is designed by no one other than (very) conservative Senator Jesse Helms.

So, when a US military official is held there because of war crimes, the US are going to attack the Netherlands in order to free him/ her.
The International Court of Justice may be in The Hague, but it is an independent court, not a Dutch court. Still the post-Bush government is holding the Dutch hostage, just in case. I'm very curious why that is and why doesn't the US accept an independent international court? And what more do the Pentagon big shots have to hide?



--Bonoa (lives less than 10 minutes away from The Hague!:S )
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:21 PM   #384
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In a new book, former Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge reveals new details on politicization under President Bush, reports US News & World Report's Paul Bedard. Among other things, Ridge admits that he was pressured to raise the terror alert to help Bush win re-election in 2004.

Ridge was never invited to sit in on National Security Council meetings; was "blindsided" by the FBI in morning Oval Office meetings because the agency withheld critical information from him; found his urgings to block Michael Brown from being named head of the emergency agency blamed for the Hurricane Katrina disaster ignored; and was pushed to raise the security alert on the eve of President Bush's re-election, something he saw as politically motivated and worth resigning over.

Dave Weigel, writing for the Washington Independent, notes that in the past, Ridge has denied manipulating security information for political reasons. In 2004, for example, he said, "We don't do politics in the Department of Homeland Security."

The Bush administration was forced to admit in the days after the 2004 alert that it was based on intelligence three or four years old. Officials then claimed there was a previously unmentioned "separate stream of intelligence" that justified the warning -- but offered little tangible information to support their new story..

ThinkProgress recalls, the AP reported that "even 'some senior Republicans' privately questioned Ridge's timing of a terror alert that came just three days after the Democratic National Convention."

Ridge's book, "The Test of Our Times: America Under Siege...and How We Can Be Safe Again," comes out September 1.
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Old 08-20-2009, 01:50 PM   #385
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Who didn't suspect this?

Diamond, put your hand down.
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Old 08-20-2009, 06:19 PM   #386
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and was pushed to raise the security alert on the eve of President Bush's re-election, something he saw as politically motivated and worth resigning over.

.
And yet he didn't...another 'whistleblowing' coward like Scott McClellan.

Now he's got a book to make money off of...he's all about his principles.

Sheesh...
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Old 08-20-2009, 07:25 PM   #387
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I want to be a politician in the next life.

They really got it goin on!
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Old 08-20-2009, 08:08 PM   #388
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Who didn't suspect this?

Diamond, put your hand down.
Well, it wasn't just Diamond, was it. Actually, at the time false flag terror alerts were been raised on a regular basis in the 2003-2005 period, those who raised concerns or questions were pretty much told they were traitors, in league with terrorists, etc - and I'd wager this probably even happened on this very forum (and I certainly don't mean you, or, to be fair, any of the left wing people on here, but people even in the political centre and in the Democrats party seemed quite happy to go along with this 'questioning the President's motives is tantamount to sympathising with terrorists' bullshit that was very popular at that time).

So, now I will turn the tables.

Neocons should be treated as suspicious individuals potentially involved in terroristic conspiracies until proven otherwise.
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Old 08-21-2009, 03:37 PM   #389
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Certainly a lot of people felt this way but nobody else who felt that way bothered to start a thread with "terror alerts" in the title.

So, everybody give it up to deep. October 2004.

Terror Alerts are Manipulation!
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Old 08-24-2009, 10:07 AM   #390
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deep's like Nostradamus, only better

http://mediamatters.org/research/200908210056
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