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Old 01-22-2009, 01:59 PM   #301
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President Bush going is the best thing that has happened in recent years! America used to be held in high esteem, but not now. That it is purely down to the fact that there has been a complete pillock in charge for years.

His Bushisms are hysterical true, but from my point of view (and many I talk to here about him), it just looked like the village idiot was in charge of one of the most powerful nations in the world He did a LOT do destroy America's credibility to the outside world IMHO

Trouble is many Americans can't or won't see that
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Old 01-22-2009, 02:05 PM   #302
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: He did a LOT do destroy America's credibility to the outside world IMHO


People are pretty anti-America over here in England (note - AMERICA, not Americans) and it's all because of Bush. America has had a real chance to redeem itself in the worlds eye now with Obama and I think its image will greatly improve. Especially in regard to his closure of Guantanamo.
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Old 01-22-2009, 02:19 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Anji View Post
President Bush going is the best thing that has happened in recent years! America used to be held in high esteem, but not now. That it is purely down to the fact that there has been a complete pillock in charge for years.

His Bushisms are hysterical true, but from my point of view (and many I talk to here about him), it just looked like the village idiot was in charge of one of the most powerful nations in the world He did a LOT do destroy America's credibility to the outside world IMHO

Trouble is many Americans can't or won't see that
Really, why is his popularity at all time lows ?


I was 18 when Nixon resigned, this is very similar.
Only a few die-hards hanging on.
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Old 01-22-2009, 02:24 PM   #304
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I was 18 when Nixon resigned, this is very similar.
Only a few die-hards hanging on.

You're the same age as my dad. Just thought I'd mention it. I'm procrastinating getting ready for work.
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Old 01-22-2009, 02:46 PM   #305
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go to your room !
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:12 PM   #306
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Oh yes, the liberal view which ignores or attempts to dismiss basic facts which upset or refute the standard liberal talking points.
Here we go again.

Average is meaningless. We discussed this.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:19 PM   #307
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People are pretty anti-America over here in England (note - AMERICA, not Americans) and it's all because of Bush. America has had a real chance to redeem itself in the worlds eye now with Obama and I think its image will greatly improve.
Exactly! I specifically said America for that very reason.

When I talk to my work colleagues in the US, some are fully aware on how the Brits view America now and they don't like it. But they are screwed on enough to realise it is not personal against them. Some don't have a clue what's going on outside their own front door.

I have always said (based on past history between our countries) that we are the missing star on the American flag and our past and future entwine with America's not with Europe. But these days (whilst Bush was in) which is the lesser of the two evils?

We have a saying here - "America sneezes and the world catches a cold"
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:32 PM   #308
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I have always said (based on past history between our countries) that we are the missing star on the American flag and our past and future entwine with America's not with Europe. But these days (whilst Bush was in) which is the lesser of the two evils?

We have a saying here - "America sneezes and the world catches a cold"


this is quite true. the world we've inherited as the lone superpower, and many of it's problems, can be traced back to the British Empire and it's subsequent break up.
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Old 01-22-2009, 05:36 PM   #309
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Exactly! I specifically said America for that very reason.

When I talk to my work colleagues in the US, some are fully aware on how the Brits view America now and they don't like it. But they are screwed on enough to realise it is not personal against them. Some don't have a clue what's going on outside their own front door.

I have always said (based on past history between our countries) that we are the missing star on the American flag and our past and future entwine with America's not with Europe. But these days (whilst Bush was in) which is the lesser of the two evils?

We have a saying here - "America sneezes and the world catches a cold"
I do think for the most part a lot of the Bush/Blair alliances came about through a "go along with it, have some sort of say in it, keep damage to a minimum" mentality. Although we're not completely blameless and people forget that. Far easier to make America the scapegoat.
My only worry is that now, after years of using America as that scapegoat, the world is expecting America to sort everything out again. Obama has SO much pressure on his shoulders and I don't envy the man.
But I do think he'll restore their standing in the world somewhat And I totally agree about how we're so connected with the country - especially in terms of the British empire.

Do people in the US realise how in thrall the rest of us are to Obama, too? I genuinely want to know the answer to that - it feels like he's been elected as leader of the world, not just America.
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:16 PM   #310
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Here we go again.

Average is meaningless. We discussed this.

Nope, what is meaningless is using the first of 96 months of an administration and the last month of a 96 month administration in attempting to gauge is success. All 96 months matter, which is why the average does matter. Historians use such averages to help in their assessments.
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:37 PM   #311
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What are you talking about? Context is a global concept, look it up...

The numbers you posted, were they averages as of yesterday?

When you say "Will Barack Obama be able to match these numbers..." you do realize the different starting points, right?

This is all called context.
The numbers are based on the latest information available. Were dealing with very long periods of time which makes the starting point not nearly as important as you think.

Its not just where you start off or finish up that matters, its also what happens in between. Plenty of time for multiple ups and downs depending on policy and other factors. Otherwise you miss out on the facts like unemployment being at historical lows from the summer of 2005, to the start of 2008.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:02 PM   #312
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Sting, you do realize Bush and Obama were handed two entirely different economies, right?

I mean you do read the news right, you know what's going on...

So to ask "will Obama be able to match..." is a pretty meaningless question.

There starting points are apples and oranges, so the side by side comparison will not be based on numbers but what they were able to do with the numbers they were handed.

That's how the real world judges these types of things.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:27 PM   #313
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Has Sting ever managed to convince you to change your tune? Has Sting ever changed his tune based on arguments you've given?

Is that ever going to change?
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:33 PM   #314
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Has Sting ever managed to convince you to change your tune? Has Sting ever changed his tune based on arguments you've given?

Is that ever going to change?
I guess it's not really this board's policy, but I think things would be different if debaters were forced to link to evidence to support their claims. Then we'd see who's merely authoritative-sounding, and who can actually back up their words.
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:35 PM   #315
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Has Sting ever managed to convince you to change your tune? Has Sting ever changed his tune based on arguments you've given?

Is that ever going to change?
Momentary memory loss, I forgot who I was talking to...
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