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Old 01-13-2009, 11:27 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
Not much evidence in the article which claims 8 year period is the weakest economically in decades!?!?!

Well, lets look at the raw averages of some economic numbers for Clintons 8 years VS. Bush's 8 years:


The Average National Federal Debt as a percentage of GDP:

Clinton Years 64.5%

Bush Years 61.9%





Average GDP growth rate:

Clinton Years 5.4%

Bush Years 4.8%





Average Annual Poverty Rate:

Clinton Years 13.3%

Bush Years 12.3%








Average Annual Inflation Rate:

Clinton Years 2.60%

Bush Years 2.69%






Average Annual Unemployment Rate:

Clinton Years 5.21%

Bush Years 5.20%






It should be noted that the average poverty rate under President Bush is the 3rd lowest in US history!
You're posting these statistics to a statistician here. I'm not fooled.

I'm aware of the difference between averages and trends. Let's say, for example, that at the beginning of his term, the unemployment rate was 4%. By the end of his term, it's 6%. What's the average, if the rate of increase was steady? 5%. But he actually oversaw a rather large shift.

I don't know the real numbers, but I do know that what you've posted here is complete spin. Averages don't matter. The change from 2001 to 2009 is what matters.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:42 PM   #242
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Old 01-14-2009, 04:47 PM   #243
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He's giving his big farewell address tomorrow night
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Old 01-14-2009, 07:57 PM   #244
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You're posting these statistics to a statistician here. I'm not fooled.

I'm aware of the difference between averages and trends. Let's say, for example, that at the beginning of his term, the unemployment rate was 4%. By the end of his term, it's 6%. What's the average, if the rate of increase was steady? 5%. But he actually oversaw a rather large shift.

I don't know the real numbers, but I do know that what you've posted here is complete spin. Averages don't matter. The change from 2001 to 2009 is what matters.
These are just the real numbers not meant to fool anyone.

The real numbers often do not correspond to some neat rise or fall in say the uneployment percentage. In any four year, and especially an 8 year period, there are multiple fluctuations, sometimes in just one year. Thats why taking the average is the best way to understand what the unemployment rate was like over a long period of time like a Presidential term. If you only use the first month of Bush's time in office and the last month of Bush's time in office, you miss out on the fact that unemployment rose early on and then dropped and remained steadly low for 4 to 5 years, only seriously rising in the last 6 months of this year. Its more accurate to look at all 96 months that Bush was in office in gauging his performance on any issue, than to simply take the first month and the last month of an 8 year period.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:17 PM   #245
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:17 PM   #246
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These are just the real numbers not meant to fool anyone.

The real numbers often do not correspond to some neat rise or fall in say the uneployment percentage. In any four year, and especially an 8 year period, there are multiple fluctuations, sometimes in just one year. Thats why taking the average is the best way to understand what the unemployment rate was like over a long period of time like a Presidential term. If you only use the first month of Bush's time in office and the last month of Bush's time in office, you miss out on the fact that unemployment rose early on and then dropped and remained steadly low for 4 to 5 years, only seriously rising in the last 6 months of this year. Its more accurate to look at all 96 months that Bush was in office in gauging his performance on any issue, than to simply take the first month and the last month of an 8 year period.
Of course they're facts. But they're misleading, and that's my point.

You've missed my point. My point is that the trend is the most important thing. Neither what you said about the first and last month nor what you said about the average was correct. My statement was disproving the relevancy of average, not pointing out an alternative.

The best way IS to look at all the months. And when you do that, it doesn't look nearly as pretty as your statistics do.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:35 PM   #247
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You've missed my point. My point is that the trend is the most important thing.
I tried to explain to you that over such a long period of time, you often have multiple fluctuations in the numbers which prevents there from being any single identifiable trend.

When you look at all the months individually, Bush numbers are sometimes better than his average and sometimes not.

But the averages are still looked at and used by Historians when examining a Presidential term.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:39 PM   #248
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it's funny when people from the fringe -- and those who have a positive view of GWB are indeed part of the fringe -- criticize the FYM mainstream.

especially when some of us so-called "san francisco" liberals are called racists in other threads.

Well, I think I called you a Washingtonian as opposed to a San Francisco liberal, but the point was in the context of the discussion, whereby I had posted a link to an interview with Chomsky, where he critiqued aspects of what he saw as misguided responses to the issue being discussed in the other thread among US liberal mainstream opinion, and I just saw, to be blunt, evidence of those attitudes he had painted in your responses to the issue. But anyway.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:01 AM   #249
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Well, I think I called you a Washingtonian as opposed to a San Francisco liberal, but the point was in the context of the discussion, whereby I had posted a link to an interview with Chomsky, where he critiqued aspects of what he saw as misguided responses to the issue being discussed in the other thread among US liberal mainstream opinion, and I just saw, to be blunt, evidence of those attitudes he had painted in your responses to the issue. But anyway.


i was responding specifically to STING's use of "san francisco" (read: gay, just like "new york" = jew) liberals whenever he gets frustrated.

but, yes, anyway.
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Old 01-15-2009, 05:16 AM   #250
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I can't wait until he's out of the White House. I never voted for him, and I was getting bad vibes when I saw him in a debate in my high school class (before he was elected.) He's an incredibly stupid and evil man.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:32 AM   #251
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I heard something about almost a half a million on dishes for the WH, don't know if that amount is accurate. Laura Bush pointed out that they were ordered BEFORE the recession.
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:51 AM   #252
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i was responding specifically to STING's use of "san francisco" (read: gay, just like "new york" = jew) liberals whenever he gets frustrated.

but, yes, anyway.

I used the term "little San Francisco" to describe the political demographics here in FYM because San Francisco County voted roughly the same way for John Kerry and Barack Obama as FYM did based on the percentage of the vote each candidate received. It has NOTHING to do with Gay people or being Gay.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:27 PM   #253
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I'm gonna miss his comedic acts.

YouTube - george bush is funny
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Old 01-18-2009, 08:11 PM   #254
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is anyone here not a liberal dem?

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Old 01-18-2009, 08:18 PM   #255
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is anyone here not a liberal dem?

Yeah, some of us are left of that.
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