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Old 07-15-2011, 07:08 PM   #16
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true, this.

but we have an enormous overreaction to all aspects of sexuality in our culture. the "porn menace" being one of them.

but then, i do know well certified shrinks who will say that porn can be an addiction, and it can ruin relationships, and people can prefer to masturbate to porn rather than have sex with their partners.

this hardly seems the porn industry's fault, though. at least no more than any other industry that pushes a product with downsides.
I feel like people with addictive personalities will just become addicted to something eventually, whatever the substance or activity. Something will trigger addiction eventually in those people and that depends on family history and genes.

In North America, we've historically decided that alcohol is okay, but pot or LSD tabs or pornography is not. As you said, there is a taboo, especially this side of the pond as far as human sexuality and nudity that probably goes back to the good ol' Puritan roots.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:02 PM   #17
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The porn industry is big business these days. The bigger it gets, the more outside investment money comes in, and the more production companies are held accountable for making sure their talent is regularly tested for STIs and HIV.
...without following state-mandated safety rules regarding condoms, which would be the minimum safety standard regarding the transmission of STDs. How noble.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:14 PM   #18
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I feel like people with addictive personalities will just become addicted to something eventually, whatever the substance or activity. Something will trigger addiction eventually in those people and that depends on family history and genes.

In North America, we've historically decided that alcohol is okay, but pot or LSD tabs or pornography is not. As you said, there is a taboo, especially this side of the pond as far as human sexuality and nudity that probably goes back to the good ol' Puritan roots.
One of my favourite quotes about America is from, IIRC, Andrew Sullivan, he said that America is simultaneously the most puritanical society on earth and also the most decadent.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:41 PM   #19
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...without following state-mandated safety rules regarding condoms, which would be the minimum safety standard regarding the transmission of STDs. How noble.
You'll get no argument from me that straight men need to get better about using condoms.

The responsibility of the industry itself vs clear consumer preference seems like an interesting debate.

Speaking for myself, I'd feel safer fucking on camera than working in a coal mine.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:48 PM   #20
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...without following state-mandated safety rules regarding condoms, which would be the minimum safety standard regarding the transmission of STDs. How noble.
You can't equate unprotected sex between two professional porn actors to sex between two sweaty people who meet at a nightclub. Totally different situations. If major porn production companies have mandatory STI testing, doesn't it occur to you that the negative repercussions from testing positive would, and does immediately end careers? There's no bigger incentive to make sure you work with reputable production houses and actors than the threat of your own brief porn career coming to a swift end when you start spewing green gunk from your nether regions.

The debate as to whether mainstream porn sets a negative standard for the need to use protection is definitely worth having, though.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:52 PM   #21
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Speaking for myself, I'd feel safer fucking on camera than working in a coal mine.
Either way you get the shaft.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:55 PM   #22
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Either way you get the shaft.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:06 PM   #23
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Yea, I'll take the easy ones.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:39 PM   #24
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I could go pretty deep into this hot topic as well.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:40 PM   #25
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there's a lot of money in porn.

i have no doubt that the lower levels of the porn industry are probably filled with the despairing and the damaged, but at the upper levels, when stars are worth millions in sales, and the entire industry is worth billions, people are likely well taken care of. i know that Larry Flint has said that the safest place to have sex is on the set of porn because everyone is tested for STDs rigorously and it's not like any guy is going to turn abusive on you or be drunk or on drugs.
You know, I'm not necessarily sure that I'd agree that lower levels of the porn industry are filled with the despairing and damaged whereas at the upper levels all is riches and sweetness and light. I know something of the fetish world (not from direct experience, sadly (ha ha!) mainly from reading blogs) and it's interesting that performers and participants are quite protective of each other. What you see on screen is not necessarily representative of the relationship or dynamic performers have with each other off the screen - in fact, almost always, it's not. Someone who ignores safewords or fails to abide by SSC - that person will establish a bad name for themselves within the community, and will likely be avoided and shunned. In this way, standards are maintained within the community. And of course it's precisely because some fetish/BDSM activities are potentially dangerous and injury-causing that standards are particularly important in this genre.

A lot of sites that cater for minority tastes are not in it to make money. It's usually not a particularly profitable enterprise, I'd guess. There are performers that are doing it for fun more than anything and have normal jobs and existences - we had an insight into this from the Max Mosley/News of the World case. I think they need to be careful in making such choices, in much the same way that a college student needs to be careful about what he or she puts up on Facebook in case future employers might find it and make a negative judgement - but on the other hand, my moral position regards amateur performers is that if they want to do this and it turns them on and they're comfortable with the person they're role playing with, then let them go ahead - and my moral position on professional porn stars is that their career is no more moral or immoral than choosing to work as a lawyer, hairdresser or mechanic.

The reality is, most states in America still have obscenity laws, and prosecutors could nail plenty of porn producers if they wanted to, and it's largely a similar situation in Europe. I am aware of one particular site, based in Hungary, that has been prosecuted recently, and this is out of probably hundreds or thousands of sites in this genre. It wasn't prosecuted because it was 'hardcore' or 'offensive' or 'immoral' or 'offended community standards' per se, it was because some women made complaints to police whereby they stated that they were forced to do things they had not consented to.

In recent years, mainstream movies like the Secretary have helped or caused a lot of people to 'come out of the closet', as it were, about their kinks, in a not dissimilar fashion to, for example, how seeing more positive representations of gay people on mainstream tv or film, might help a gay teenager. In And the reality is, many, many, many people's tastes extend beyond the vanilla, and their tastes aren't catered for by your Playboys or your Vegas or LA producers, and certainly not by guys like Max Hardcore.

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i will also say that even mainstream straight porn often makes me uncomfortable. but perhaps that's a paternalistic attitude on my part where the depiction of sexuality seems to be something that men "do" to women.
I'd venture that this isn't because you're paternalistic, and it isn't because you're gay either. You'd probably be surprised at the number of straight women and men who find mainstream straight porn unalluring and/or even uncomfortable.

Mainstream straight porn, as produced in Vegas or LA, is like the McDonald's of the porn world. Sells in enormous quantities, appeals to the lowest common denominator, does the job, deceptively satisfying initially, but you feel a bit ill afterwards and it's not particularly good for you, alluring or satisfying and definitely not fulfilling or beautiful. Filthy amateur porn for the win, say I.

Finally, Canadiens mentioned the recent trend toward 'sensual' porn aimed at 'the ladies'. I also approve of this tendency.
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:18 AM   #26
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Yea, I'll take the easy ones.


it was well played, though.
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:21 AM   #27
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Filthy amateur porn for the win, say I.:up

yup.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:33 AM   #28
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Either way you get the shaft.
Huzzah!!!
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:19 AM   #29
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You can't equate unprotected sex between two professional porn actors to sex between two sweaty people who meet at a nightclub.
Yes, since statistically speaking porn actors and actresses run a far, far greater risk of having an STD.

The reality based on the statistics is that working in porn is a high-risk environment, particularly for women. Many porn actresses have become pregnant b/c producers insisted on no condoms. This is in addition to the outbreaks of various STDs including HIV.

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If major porn production companies have mandatory STI testing, doesn't it occur to you that the negative repercussions from testing positive would, and does immediately end careers?
In general, actors are responsible to pay for their own testing, which further reduces the incentive to get tested. Since the collapse of AIM, the only real center designed to help test porn stars for STDS regularly, producers have reverted back to something of an honor system -- bring in paperwork and we'll sign off on it. However, according to the Village Voice, "We're dealing with a group of people who are at a stage in life not known for great responsibility. Says Belladonna: 'People don't care—they'll work when they know they have an STD. Many live paycheck to paycheck.'"

So you have a situation where there are lax standards regarding testing, where the onus is on the performer to be honest (without much incentive) and to pay for their own testing on a regular basis (even less incentive), and a general refusal to conform to basic health and safety regulations in terms of condom use, combined with performers who have a significantly higher infection rate of various STDs.

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The debate as to whether mainstream porn sets a negative standard for the need to use protection is definitely worth having, though.
Yes, as well as other negative standards.

FWIW -- below are some quotes from current and former porn actresses describing their experiences in porn.

(Full disclosure -- a friend of mine has been making a documentary about this issue for a number of years, which is why I have both interest in this subject matter and great concern for it. We haven't even broached the ways in which the porn industry intersects with the sex trafficking industry. Good times.)

"Harder, F--k me harder!" I viciously screamed back. The vulgar words shout of of my mouth as I was forcefully and anally penetrated by a brutal male performer. When screaming wasn't enough to endure the pain, I stuffed another man's penis into my mouth like a human pacifier. The sucking helped relieve the pain. Breathing deeply through my nostrils, the stench of bodily fluids filled my burning lungs. Rotten, dirty, foul anal smells; I was in a human hell." ~ Roxy

"Most girls get their first experience in gonzo films – in which they’re taken to a crappy studio apartment in Mission Hills and penetrated in every hole possible by some abusive asshole who thinks her name is Bitch. And these girls, some of whom have the potential to become major stars in the industry, go home afterward and pledge never to do it again because it was such a terrible experience.” ~ Jenna Jameson

"I tried backing out and not do porn at all but a male performer said I couldn't back out because I signed a contract. I was threatened that if I did not do the scene I would get sued. I ended up taking shots of vodka to get me through it. As I did more and more scenes I abused prescription pills which were given to me anytime by several doctors in the San Fernando Valley. Vicodin, Xanax, Prozac and Zoloft. All I had to do was tell them what I needed and they gave it to me." ~ Michelle Avanti

"I have been a performer now for 14 years in the adult film industry in many countries, states . . . all over the place. I have worked for most of these companies, and I was around for the once-a-month HIV-positive outbreak in ’98. Yes, I was, and I got to see those performers that nobody knows about—that nobody claims that got HIV, that are not a part of the statistics—walk out the door as non-performers, not to be counted. Yeah, there are a lot of cover-ups going on. There is a lot of tragedy. There are a lot of horrible things." ~ Anita Campbell

"I was sexually abused the first time by my step grandfather on my dad's side and the second time by my actual stepdad so my sexuality was messed up from the beginning. I created another personality that was in complete control and didn't have those things happen and didn't have to deal with the pain. The industry is not a real accomplishment. It's just a false sense of accomplishment. It covers everything up for what it is." ~ Stephanie Swift

“I like to hide — hide everything, you know?... And I'm not happy... I don't like myself at all... My whole entire body feels it when I'm doing it and... I feel so — so gross.” ~ Belladonna

"I sold my soul to the devil without even knowing it. Ironically, I later performed in a brutal gangbang for Devil's Films." ~ Elizabeth Rollings

"After a year or so of that so-called “glamorous” life, I sadly discovered that drugs and drinking were a part of the lifestyle. I began to drink and party out of control! Cocaine, alcohol and ecstasy were my favorites. Before long, I turned into a person I did not want to be. After doing so many hardcore scenes I couldn’t do it anymore. I just remember being in horrible situations and experiencing extreme depression and being alone and sad." - Andi Anderson

"I was worried about my first anal scene for quite a few days ... then the big moment arrived. It REALLY hurt! I almost quit and said, "I can’t do this". When it was all over, I was so happy and relieved I was able to do it. But I still have to think if I want to do anal on a regular basis. It did hurt a lot! So will I continue to do anal? Let’s wait for my butt to heal, then we’ll talk." ~ Lucky Starr

"My first movie I was treated very rough by 3 guys. They pounded on me, gagged me with their penises, and tossed me around like I was a ball! I was sore, hurting and could barely walk. My insides burned and hurt so badly. I could barely pee and to try to have a bowel movement was out of the question. I was hurting so bad from the physical abuse from these 3 male porn stars! - Alexa Milano

"People in the porn industry are numb to real life and are like zombies walking around. The abuse that goes on in this industry is completely ridiculous. The way these young ladies are treated is totally sick and brainwashing. I left due to the trauma I experienced even though I was there only a short time." - Jessie Jewels

"I had bodily fluids all over my face that had to stay on my face for ten minutes. The abuse and degradation was rough. I sweated and was in deep pain. On top of the horrifying experience, my whole body ached, and I was irritable the whole day. The director didn't really care how I feltt; he only wanted to finish the video." - Genevieve

"The truth is I let my lifestyle get the best of me. I hate life. I'm a mess. A disaster. I've attempted suicide many times."

"No one cares about a dead porn star or stripper." - Neesa

"Guys punching you in the face. You have semen from many guys all over your face, in your eyes. You get ripped. Your insides can come out of you. It's never ending." - Jersey Jaxin
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:01 PM   #30
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where did you find all those quotes, Nathan?

(they seem quite obsessed with buggery)
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