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Old 06-27-2015, 05:58 AM   #226
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It's been quite a day. A very good and important one, I think. I wanted to mull everything over and make a substantial post instead of saying some stupid shit like "this ruling made me gay (happy)!" After reading through some of Ashley's musings, as well as a word or two from the conservative wing, I think I can do that.

As many of you know, I was raised Christian and have clung to that faith to this day, albeit with some tweaks. It's days like today that convince me that such tweaks are necessary if I'm going to be a decent, well-adjusted Christian.

One of the best things my father ever told me, one of the most freeing things, was that as much as he tried to teach me about life, ultimately I would leave home and have to find out what parts of his advice worked for me. Even though I was fed a judgmental attitude toward them all my life, condemning homosexuals and homosexual marriage does not work for me. No matter how many times I turn it around in my head, the idea of a loving God creating homosexuals (yes, conservatives; sexual orientation is biological), only to condemn them for expressing the love they feel is backward to me. I don't get it.

The idea that a country built on freedom and equality could only recognize a marriage of two individuals in certain states also rings false. We're by no means perfect, and we have a long way to go with regards to equal treatment of minorities, but making the statement to allow gay marriage on a federal level is a big step toward being the welcoming, humane country that we purport to be. It's a damn shame that it will require a generation or two of new parents to take the controversy out of this issue. Alas, some people don't change. Some people do progress, albeit at a very slow rate. Evolve, if you will.

I was on ChristianForums.net a long time ago (Axver had an account there too, in fact, though he probably hasn't been there for the better part of a decade), and I remember reading debate after debate involving "evolutionists" and creationists, just going at each other like they're in court or something. Funny shit. Eventually, I realized that the creationists always lost because literally all the evidence was on the other side. Then I saw boatloads of evidence that sexual orientation was a biological matter and not merely sinful people making sinful choices.

So I stepped back and had to decide what really mattered to me as a person, as a Christian, etc. Why am I religious at all? In what way am I benefiting myself and the world as a whole if I'm going at this from such a confused mindset? Am I forbidden from change? Do I always have to be right? The truth is, the only reason someone should be a Christian at all is that they want to get people excited about Jesus because he was the son of God and a great example of how to live a good life and treat people with respect. If you're only interested in spreading condemnation, you need to get the fuck out and move on with your life. You're making an utter mockery of everything you claim to follow. I believe that one can have a strong moral compass regardless of religion, but nothing would help a person like that.

And I'll just come right out and say it: I hate what the evangelical right represents, more so today than ever. It's a hateful hive mind that is so far from Christ-like that they might as well be following a different messiah altogether. In fact, I wish they would. A Glenn Beck cult could be fun. He's a wacky motherfucker. Could make for some laughs. I just wish that they would stop pretending they had any interest in morality, progress or the greater good. All I see are a lot of hateful goons thoughtlessly applying a specific, TBN-approved reading of the Bible to all situations. No respect for historical context, only surface reading. I used to be like them and have made several embarrassing posts on this very site with such a mindset, but I like to think I've grown up.

Honestly, if those are the sorts of individuals making a fuss today, I think the US made the right choice. I'm so happy for the gay members of Interference that are able to call their loved ones "husband" or "wife" in all 50 states and garner the respect they deserve as adult citizens that are free to make their own decisions. It's a great feeling, on your wedding day, to stand beside your spouse with a crowd of people behind you that sincerely wish nothing but happiness and success to you and I'm thrilled that everyone interested in such an experience will have that opportunity. No asterisks, no strings attached. Just love.

And in case you were wondering, no, my heterosexual marriage hasn't been diminished in the meantime.
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Old 06-27-2015, 06:24 AM   #227
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This thread makes me happy, and everything on facebook right now as well. Many of my straight friends also support it and everybody's happy about it.

Irvine, I think that it has indeed gotten easier. But perhaps there's a difference per country as well. I don't really feel different, well I do but that has other reasons, but not because of my sexuality. Between all my friends and coworkers, it's just accepted. Whenever one person comes out, everybody goes "Okay, whatever makes you happy" and it's no big deal anymore. And it really isn't. That's pretty great. Hope it ends up being that way in the US as well.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:19 AM   #228
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Oh and I just saw this on 9gag, heh.



Only downside to the whole thing? Keep hearing that horrible Macklemore track on the radio all day.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:34 AM   #229
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Only downside to the whole thing? Keep hearing that horrible Macklemore track on the radio all day.
Is that the song U2 plays over the PA as the crowd leaves on this tour? Because that song is terrible.
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:48 AM   #230
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Yes exactly that one. Same Love I think it's titled.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:52 AM   #231
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... he was referring to the ACA decision. He had no idea what this morning's ruling was when he said it.


(edited to clarify, just in case: that's toward Cruz, not Oregoropa. )

Lovely post, LeMel.

I don't cry easily anymore (I used to cry at every semi-sappy commercial and movie; I've become cold in my advancing age), but hearing a bit of the men's chorus singing the anthem, and then seeing the NYT front page on Twitter did get me a little choked up.
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:17 PM   #232
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Yes exactly that one. Same Love I think it's titled.
Yeesh.

A new gay anthem is needed ASAP.
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:20 PM   #233
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Yeesh.



A new gay anthem is needed ASAP.


Only straight people think that's the gay anthem. ;-)
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:20 PM   #234
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Hell, take Mary Lambert's song. (She's the one singing the nice parts of the song. i.e., anything not by Macklemore.) It's gorgeous, and she's actually gay, not some dude who's like "I thought I was gay in third grade because I liked to keep my room neat" or whatever.

I might be the only Seattleite who finds Macklemore insufferable. (Although the Thrift Shop song is fun.)
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Old 06-27-2015, 12:27 PM   #235
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Only straight people think that's the gay anthem. ;-)
True, but I'd rather not be associated with such drivel.
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And if U2 EVER did Hawkmoon live....and the version from the Lovetown Tour, my uterus would leave my body and fling itself at Bono - for realz.
Don't worry baby, it's gonna be all right. Uncertainty can be a guiding light...
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:19 PM   #236
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When I was a kid, I was basically raised with the idea that the civil marriages in court houses didn't "count" the way ones in churches did. They weren't in the site of God, so they weren't ordained by God, basically. They were still totally legal though in the eyes of the state, and it was kinda just frowned upon because, hell, at least it was a man and woman, right? (Tongue in cheek here).
I'll say this about civil unions: I really wish a federal version were available so that an option for a binding relationship existed in purely secular terms. As someone considering making that type of commitment, I would strongly prefer it not to be mired in thousands of years of social and religious context that I find distasteful at best. I have to imagine there are gay people who feel the same way.
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:28 PM   #237
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Only straight people think that's the gay anthem. ;-)
Wait, there really is a gay anthem?!
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:29 PM   #238
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I'll say this about civil unions: I really wish a federal version were available so that an option for a binding relationship existed in purely secular terms. As someone considering making that type of commitment, I would strongly prefer it not to be mired in thousands of years of social and religious context that I find distasteful at best. I have to imagine there are gay people who feel the same way.
You make your marriage what you want it to be.
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:31 PM   #239
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What?

Just go down to a county office and get a license and have the clerk do the act on a weekday afternoon. Nothing religious about that. I'm sure atheists don't have a problem calling themselves married and do not consider themselves participants in a religious activity.
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:33 PM   #240
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Only straight people think that's the gay anthem. ;-)
no more than a black anthem

to be fair, during the Grammys, that song was played when 30 couples got married
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