The EU Elections - The Results.

[vaz02]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...0599/Oxford-student-Tories-in-racism-row.html

 

[anitram]

I never know how to respond to these immigration threads.

I am an immigrant, and it so happens that my family has been very successful in our adopted country. I guess when my Dad worked 3 jobs for peanuts, he was "taking" them from the people here. And I guess when I went to law school, I took somebody's spot as well.

A lot of the time, people born in a country don't really appreciate just how much harder immigrants have to work. And that there is a certain, strong incentive for us to succeed, because we have nothing and contrary to popular belief, are not handed down anything. There are a lot of misconceptions here, and people don't seem to grasp just how ingrained certain advantages are to people who are not immigrants. So if I chose to work 3x as hard as somebody who wasn't an immigrant, I don't feel like I need to apologize for that either.

 

[Bonoa]

I never know how to respond to these immigration threads.

I am an immigrant, and it so happens that my family has been very successful in our adopted country. I guess when my Dad worked 3 jobs for peanuts, he was "taking" them from the people here. And I guess when I went to law school, I took somebody's spot as well.

A lot of the time, people born in a country don't really appreciate just how much harder immigrants have to work. And that there is a certain, strong incentive for us to succeed, because we have nothing and contrary to popular belief, are not handed down anything. There are a lot of misconceptions here, and people don't seem to grasp just how ingrained certain advantages are to people who are not immigrants. So if I chose to work 3x as hard as somebody who wasn't an immigrant, I don't feel like I need to apologize for that either.

for sharing your story!

A few years back, there was a row here in the Netherlands, because companies are not eager to hire interns who have Arab names. One guy, whose parents are Moroccan, decided to change his name on his resume into an ultimate Dutch name like "Kees de Vries", after being turned down by all of the companies he applied for internship. That guy was a straight A student, representative, polite and seemed to have all the chances to be hired. His professors were also surprised when all the companies turned him down!

After the name change he was finally asked for a lot of job interviews.

Three years ago, the Dutch newspaper Trouw did a research where Dutch and Moroccan boys had to call 62 companies for an internship. The boys had the same background and mastering of the Dutch language and called to the same companies. The result: 39% of the Dutch boys was hired and only 17% of the Moroccan boys.

(Here is the link, but I could only find an article in Dutch Marokkaanse jongens gediscrimineerd bij stage - Trouw )

 

[financeguy]

I never know how to respond to these immigration threads.

I am an immigrant, and it so happens that my family has been very successful in our adopted country. I guess when my Dad worked 3 jobs for peanuts, he was "taking" them from the people here. And I guess when I went to law school, I took somebody's spot as well.

A lot of the time, people born in a country don't really appreciate just how much harder immigrants have to work. And that there is a certain, strong incentive for us to succeed, because we have nothing and contrary to popular belief, are not handed down anything. There are a lot of misconceptions here, and people don't seem to grasp just how ingrained certain advantages are to people who are not immigrants. So if I chose to work 3x as hard as somebody who wasn't an immigrant, I don't feel like I need to apologize for that either.

I respect your personal story and where you're coming from in every way, but I cannot help but think there is a more than a grain of truth in the statement, to quote Morrissey "that life is hard enough when you belong here."

In general, I have found that the real racism resides in denying or dismissing the rights, opinions and perspective of the native populations - not, mind you, that I have any time for the likes of the BNP who in my opinion are largely thugs with seriously suspect backgrounds, and on balance do harm to the people they claim to represent.

I would summarize my opinion by saying that it should be possible to vote for anti-immigration and even pro-nativist parties without being accused of the dread thought crime of racism. My perspective is that of anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism, and I can't help but think that pro-immigration policies ultimately amount to another form of colonisation.

Indeed, if one were to look at anti-immigration policies in the world today, one could look in the direction of certain Asian countries - Japan being one case in point. The % of immigrants that advance to positions of status and power in, for example, Japanese, Chinese and Malaysian society is rather miniscule, but it's interesting to note that we in the the West accept very large numbers of their immigrants, in the interests of our much vaunted multicultural society, no doubt.

 

[financeguy]

for sharing your story!

A few years back, there was a row here in the Netherlands, because companies are not eager to hire interns who have Arab names. One guy, whose parents are Moroccan, decided to change his name on his resume into an ultimate Dutch name like "Kees de Vries", after being turned down by all of the companies he applied for internship. That guy was a straight A student, representative, polite and seemed to have all the chances to be hired. His professors were also surprised when all the companies turned him down!

After the name change he was finally asked for a lot of job interviews.

Three years ago, the Dutch newspaper Trouw did a research where Dutch and Moroccan boys had to call 62 companies for an internship. The boys had the same background and mastering of the Dutch language and called to the same companies. The result: 39% of the Dutch boys was hired and only 17% of the Moroccan boys.

(Here is the link, but I could only find an article in Dutch Marokkaanse jongens gediscrimineerd bij stage - Trouw )

Is this racist? Or a normal and natural tendency to prefer one's own 'type'?

Why should there be a row over this finding? Has Morocco conducted similar research on the fortunes of native jobseekers vis-a-vis Dutch immigrants? (These are largely rhetorical questions, but I suspect the answer to the last one is a negative.)

 

[Salome]

when I lived in Belfast I found it impossible to get any accountancy firm to want me to come for an interview even though I have a full Dutch accountancy degree and several years of experience working in Dutch accountancy practise + I was willing to start again as a junior

now I don't consider this racist, though I still can't for the life of me figure out why I couldn't even get interviews set up
they must not have known what to make of / didn't feel like having to bother to look into foreign degrees + work experience

the Moroccans in The Netherlands are born here, have degrees from here and are as Dutch as I am but with a foreign sounding name
if you can't get interviews just because of you having a Moroccan name then, yes, that is racist

 

[melon]

Is this racist? Or a normal and natural tendency to prefer one's own 'type'?

My legal first name is fairly uncommon and somewhat "ethnic" looking, and when I used to put it on my resumes several years ago, I wouldn't get calls. The minute I put my common name on it, with no other changes, I started getting calls. Now they don't find out about my legal name until I start filling out employment forms, which, by that point, isn't a problem, because now they know who I am.

Is it racism, per se, or a fear of anything that appears "foreign" or "unfamiliar"? I'm not entirely sure what to make of it.

 

[kellyahern]

You guys really seem quite far behind in recent BNP policy.
The BNP have Jewish members and have support from ethnic minorities. Dont believe too much in what liberal media have to say.

This from an interview only 7 years ago.

Griffin was in his mid- to late-30s when he made some of his most incendiary remarks. In 1998, he was convicted of distributing material likely to incite racial violence, for which he received a two-year suspended sentence. He wrote in his own publication, The Rune: 'I am well aware that orthodox opinion is that 6m Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into soup and lampshades... I have reached the conclusion that the "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria.'

He is unabashed about this statement when I remind him of it. 'I'd still say those three,' he says, 'but I'd add "and fact" if I was being polite and reasonable about it. The reason people like me aren't polite and reasonable sometimes about the Holocaust is nothing to do with anti-Semitism or wanting to give offence. It is to do with frustration with how it is used to prevent any genuine debate on questions to do with immigration, ethnicity and the cultural survival of the western nations.'

Pushed further on the Holocaust - what he has in the past called the 'Holohoax' - he becomes more animated and more intransigent. His face reddens and his voice grows uncomfortably loud. The lunchtime murmur of hushed conversation and hesitant cutlery is drowned out by a full-bloodied reappraisal of Nazi atrocities. 'The only reason the Nazis were so fanatically anti-Jewish was the very close correlation between some Jews and communism,' he continues. He insists the number of deaths at Auschwitz has been inflated, and is emphatic that no more than 3.5m Jews had perished under Nazi rule.

Andrew Anthony meets Nick Griffin | From the Observer | The Observer

Lovely man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7Dygboz4Ew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsnSZnhygQY

 

[Cactus Annie]

Cactus Annie, did you just read a thing I posted? Or must you insiste on spouting things so evidentally from the pages of the daily mail, so evidently written to cause such public anger and hate? That sells papers; the truth doesn't. And the truth is that the employment problem we're currently facing will NOT go away should we suddenly decide to rid the country of all non-english people. It's just easier to think that. We don't have the most lax laws in the EU, the whole point of the EU is that we all have THE SAME LAWS!

I heard it on a BBC documentary that the UK allows more EU immigrant workers than any other. Hardly a right-wing media portal and it's the most reliable source. I never read any newspaper because I don't have the time and I don't trust any of them. The last time I bought one was when I was doing my degree, around 5 years ago and it was The Times, because tabloid papers and degree's don't mix. George Galloway said the likes of the BNP have removed the ability to allow any sensible discussion on immigration. He says it's getting out of hand and he's the most leftist liberal I know of in political spectrum

 

[Cactus Annie]

That's not a project to realize! That would only count for ecomomic refugees, who can't have an asylum seeker status in European countries.
The majority of political refugees can't go back to their country, even if they want to!
People like Indian ICT professionals for example, are planning to go back to their countries anyway, it's the same as what we call 'expats' when Europeans go to work as a professional abroad for a few years. (why are they called expats in the first place while foreign professionals are seen and treated as foreigners?)


No one leaves his/ her country for fun. They are forced to.

I never even mentioned asylum seekers, I wasn't talking about them. If (and lets pray that this never happens to us) we were forced out of our respective countries because it was too dangerous to live here than we'd hope we could seek safe shelter in another country. My ex (and still a good friend of mine), was Bosnian -Croat asylum seeker who lived in Stoke. Now he's living in London.

 

[Vincent Vega]

National Statistics Online
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/ppmg0509.pdf

I fear for England, it might burst soon.

 

[vaz02]

This from an interview only 7 years ago.



Andrew Anthony meets Nick Griffin | From the Observer | The Observer

Lovely man

YouTube - BNP MEP Nick Griffin + KKK Terrorist

YouTube - Nick Griffin - Holocaust Denier (BNP)

YouTube - BNP leader on Obama

In a RECENT interview he admits the holocaust did happen, not like he could deny it any more. But the BNP allows Jewish members so your 3 youtube clips dating as far back as the early 00's did nothing to change BNP membership policy lol.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Come on, that is an extremely naive view you hold there if you really think that he suddenly has become a better man who even respects Jews. Are you really falling for that?

 

[vaz02]

Come on, that is an extremely naive view you hold there if you really think that he suddenly has become a better man who even respects Jews. Are you really falling for that?

Im not falling to any view. Im just saying they have Jewish members. Its a fact.

 

[financeguy]

Im not falling to any view. Im just saying they have Jewish members. Its a fact.

When they decided Muslims rather than Jews were the principle enemy of the white race, they probably recruited a small number of Jews who were ignorant of the party's history.

Big deal.

 

[vaz02]

When they decided Muslims rather than Jews were the principle enemy of the white race, they probably recruited a small number of Jews who were ignorant of the party's history.

Big deal.

It sums it up really. The BNP and a small portion of the Jewish community found a common enemy.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Im not falling to any view. Im just saying they have Jewish members. Its a fact.

Then I guess it's a fact that such a simple trick is actually working.

 

[kellyahern]

In a RECENT interview he admits the holocaust did happen, not like he could deny it any more. But the BNP allows Jewish members so your 3 youtube clips dating as far back as the early 00's did nothing to change BNP membership policy lol.

The last clip was from 2008.

So you want to talk about their membership policy? Let's take a little walk through their constitution to see some of their other polices too - from their own website.

Section 1: Political Objectives:
in section b

(The BNP) is committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948

Section 2: Membership:

Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal ambit of a defined "racial group" this being "Indigenous Caucasian"

Oh okay, so it's fine if your Jewish, just not black. Or Asian. Or anything else but white. Well, that's okay then. That's not racist at all.

 

[vaz02]

Whats with the rolleyes ? i said they allowed Jewish members. Not once did i mention anything to do with Black or asian folk. Its like me picking out a random fact about an apple tree and inserting a rolleyes smiley.

The term they use for a non white is " racial tourist "

 

[anitram]

The term they use for a non white is " racial tourist "

How any sentient being votes for these people is beyond me.

 

[kellyahern]

Whats with the rolleyes ? i said they allowed Jewish members. Not once did i mention anything to do with Black or asian folk. Its like me picking out a random fact about an apple tree and inserting a rolleyes smiley.

The term they use for a non white is " racial tourist "

So you agree that the BNP is a racist party then?

People haven't given the party the chance to speak so how can they possibly defend themselves or put there point across ? Instead they get secondhand drivel from hack journo's hell bent on selling papers and scare mongering the public.

I guess I'm just confused. What is there to defend? They want to "restore" Britain to an "overwhelmingly white" makeup. That says it all right there, to me.

Btw, I agree that the BNP has a right to say whatever they want to say, no matter how offensive I might find it. But I also agree that people have a right to protest against them.

 

[vaz02]

These people are not protesting though, they are harassing and physically assaulting elected officials. Legally elected at that.

In a court of law the defendant has a right to make his case.

 

[Bonoa]

Is this racist? Or a normal and natural tendency to prefer one's own 'type'?

Why should there be a row over this finding? Has Morocco conducted similar research on the fortunes of native jobseekers vis-a-vis Dutch immigrants? (These are largely rhetorical questions, but I suspect the answer to the last one is a negative.)

If you judge someone by his/ her foreign sounding name while the person is in fact born and raised here in the Netherlands, with the Dutch nationality and a good degree of education, than it is racist.

When you prefer to stick with your 'own type' than you are in fact racist or at least guilty of some form of discrimination.

That's not normal or natural.

 

[Bonoa]

In a RECENT interview he admits the holocaust did happen, not like he could deny it any more. But the BNP allows Jewish members so your 3 youtube clips dating as far back as the early 00's did nothing to change BNP membership policy lol.

Of course he admitted the Holocaust did happen, because in some Eu countries, like Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany you can get a lawsuit for denying the holocaust. We are talking about the European elections here; of course the BNP hopes to be taken seriously.

The term they use for a non white is " racial tourist "

That's even more sick. A tourist is supposed to go back to his own country someday. They hope that all people of other race/ ethnicity will leave the Bristish isles one day, in order to have a happy white world again.

These people are not protesting though, they are harassing and physically assaulting elected officials. Legally elected at that.

In a court of law the defendant has a right to make his case.

I am very curious what you really think of the BNP. It seems that, in your eyes all protesters are harassers of elected officials and left-winged radicals --->(

Those anti democracy protesters seem the type who terrorise scientists who test on animals and in an act of revenge dig up the bodies of family relatives.

Do they seem like a neat party to you or do you only want to see their effective anti immigration policy?

 

[vaz02]

Bonoa, no offence but did you see the protests in the UK this past week ? they have been verging on physical assault. If i did that to a random person on the street I would of been arrested.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I agree such actions are counter-productive, but it really looks like you are using them to excuse the politics of the BNP.
The left goes violently against the NPD and neo-nazis here, and I see that as being counter-productive as well. Yet, I couldn't imagine using that as an argument for the NPD.

 

[vaz02]

The BNP doesnt bother me because they will never get enough seats to make a difference. Im glad they won seats in Europe though, they need to be addressed and the only way to do that is to confront them and have a debate on policy with all the main party's taking part. The BNP will have the full glare of the media on them now after winning 2 seats in Europe.

The far left are just as bad as the party they protest against. Oh no... the irony.

 

[Bonoa]

Bonoa, no offence but did you see the protests in the UK this past week ? they have been verging on physical assault. If i did that to a random person on the street I would of been arrested.

I agree with that. I reject the use of violence in protest. However, the amount of neo nazi's in the crowd...Do you really think these scumbags go to a demonstration silently?
I also reject violence of neo nazi's against ethnic minorities, left winged people, homeless people which happened in the past in Britain, Germany and The Netherlands.

But, as Vincent Vega said in his comment above, you can't use this as an excuse for BNP policy and ideas.

 

[Bonoa]

The BNP doesnt bother me because they will never get enough seats to make a difference. Im glad they won seats in Europe though, they need to be addressed and the only way to do that is to confront them and have a debate on policy with all the main party's taking part. The BNP will have the full glare of the media on them now after winning 2 seats in Europe.

The far left are just as bad as the party they protest against. Oh no... the irony.

Well...I wonder what you voted. The BNP or another party?
What do you think of the racism involved or do you not care at all?
What do you think of the fact that Nick Griffin is an ex neo nazi?

 

[vaz02]

I voted UKIP, I said so on the first page.