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Old 03-01-2012, 08:57 PM   #31
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I believe that the life of a person begins at conception.
And anyone that argues otherwise is a fool (see Barack Obama and "above my pay grade"). But when does personhood begin? I believe that occurs at viability (see Barack Obama and Illinois State Senate votes on "born alive" legislation).
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:01 PM   #32
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Ya, but you guys only believe that because you believe god reached down and dropped a soul into the zygote. Poof! Life! Everyone else knows it's much more nuanced than that
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:03 PM   #33
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Most people who have abortions do so in the very start of the pregnancy to begin with. Most places don't even allow it after a certain point unless there's some sort of absolute, dire, truly life-threatening emergency anyway. And I think the reason for that is the sort INDY refers to, by then it's pretty well formed into an actual baby and such.

I've always said once the baby's capable of surviving outside the womb I understand not supporting abortion unless, like stated, it was some major life or death type of situation.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:09 PM   #34
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Ya, but you guys only believe that because you believe god reached down and dropped a soul into the zygote. Poof! Life! Everyone else knows it's much more nuanced than that
I believe that because I have a nephew that was born 8 weeks premature and medical technology and the skill of his doctors keep him alive. I'd hate to think that, in the operating room next door, the life of a human fetus the exact same age could be terminated in a matter of minutes for no particular reason.

Nuanced enough?
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:12 PM   #35
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I've always said once the baby's capable of surviving outside the womb I understand not supporting abortion unless, like stated, it was some major life or death type of situation.
My point about agreement has just been made. This is how most people feel, most people not profiteering off abortion (on either side) or running for national office (on either side) that is.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:16 PM   #36
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Yeah is it really that surprising that most pro-choice people don't ever plan on having an abortion? I know I don't. I have my reasons and couldn't do it, but luckily my reasons are my own and my choice is between me, my spouse, and my doctor and it should stay that way.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:21 PM   #37
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I believe that because I have a nephew that was born 8 weeks premature and medical technology and the skill of his doctors keep him alive. I'd hate to think that, in the operating room next door, the life of a human fetus the exact same age could be terminated in a matter of minutes for no particular reason.

Nuanced enough?
I worded that a little more rudely than I should have. Sorry (and not because of your story). But 8 weeks premature is a long way into pregnancy, so we are on the same page at least at this point. I was more addressing your other point about conception
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:35 PM   #38
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My point about agreement has just been made. This is how most people feel, most people not profiteering off abortion (on either side) or running for national office (on either side) that is.
Extremists ruin things for any discussion. Most pro-choice people aren't pro-abortion, like Liseje said, most have no plans on such a thing unless they absolutely feel it would be necessary. But they also understand the issue isn't so black and white for everyone. So do most pro-lifers. I understand and can respect the viewpoint of pro-lifers, definitely. I think most pro-lifers show sympathy, too, and try and take reasonable steps to make sure this is less likely to be an issue for a woman (by supporting sex ed, or supporting the idea of adoption and adopting kids themselves, or working in the healthcare business to try and help women have pregnancies without complications, or whatever). I know most pro-lifers see the people screaming outside the clinics with their scare tactic pictures, or the people who say to just ban it and that'll solve the problem full stop, as not at all helpful to the cause.

And really, since it is a legal procedure and all that sort of thing, I don't get why politicians think they need to get involved in the debate at all. I really don't care about their views on a subject that's none of their concern. I want them to focus on things that actually will affect the country as a whole. Like the economy. Or foreign policy. Or the national debt. Or ANYTHING else of that sort. Abortion is simply a hot button issue that they know will stir up the base, on both ends. They know there's nothing they can do about it in reality and know if they tried to take on Roe v Wade as a whole it'd be a mess, but the issue still comes up every single election cycle at some point and it's insane.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:45 PM   #39
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The care of human life and happiness and not their destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government.”

~ Thomas Jefferson
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:46 PM   #40
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ooh, i know this one!

irrelevant quotes for 20 points, john.
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:54 PM   #41
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ooh, i know this one!

irrelevant quotes for 20 points, john.
And from an atheist, no less. Granted, he's too ignorant to know he's quoting one
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Old 03-01-2012, 09:58 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by the iron horse
The care of human life and happiness and not their destruction is the first and only legitimate object of good government.”

~ Thomas Jefferson
Don't you have any of your own thoughts on the subject?
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:04 AM   #43
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And anyone that argues otherwise is a fool (see Barack Obama and "above my pay grade"). But when does personhood begin? I believe that occurs at viability (see Barack Obama and Illinois State Senate votes on "born alive" legislation).


i vote to trust women.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:09 AM   #44
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i vote to trust women.
But, women are all emotional and wanting constant sex. We cannot be trusted.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:37 AM   #45
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We're either sluts or we're too frigid/prudeish. Can't seem to win either way.
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