The entitlement mentality is killing us…

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pcfitz80

The Fly
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The title says it all. I believe the sense of entitlement that a growing number of people have come to have over recent decades is slowly killing America and other western countries. This issue is one that has been championed by political conservatives and while they are right on many accounts they don’t seem to understand that they are just as much a cause of the problem as those on the left.

I’ll start by acknowledging, as I said, that conservatives are right on many accounts: America does seem to have too many people who expect others to take care of them and provide them with the good life simply “because” with out any regard as to whether they are actually contributing anything in return. This includes people such unionized public transit workers in the city where I live who make 50-100 thousand dollars a year for low skilled work and get generous pensions and who still manage to find something to gripe about every couple years that causes them to go on strike. It includes people who make poor decisions such as getting pregnant at 16 and then expecting society to take care of them by footing the cost of their welfare checks. It also includes those in the middle class who simply feel “I deserve” to go on a vacation to a 5 star resort or to live in a half a million dollar home simply because I know other people have these things and I deserve to have things as nice as what anyone else has because to not have it would be “unfair”. It is this latter example that played a part in the recent financial meltdown. So to all conservatives out there…I admit it, you are right!

The problem is that the issue is much deeper and more widespread than conservatives seem to understand. In fact, as the left correctly points out, they are guilty of these same sins! Those who are among the wealthiest of society are know longer content unless they are continually aquirring more and more wealth. They seek to continually alter the rules of the game so that it allows them to have a larger, and larger piece of the pie simply because they feel “they deserve it” or “they are societies best” regardless of whether their actions (cutting taxes for the top 1% and social programs for the lower and middle classes, outsourcing…etc..) hurt families who are working just as hard as they are and deserve to at least have a decent standard of living. This also ties in directly to what was mentioned in the previous paragraph about the real estate market. Members of the lower and middle classes may have bought houses they knew they couldn’t afford but greedy rich bankers on wall street were all too eager to help them along since doing so would bring them more wealth. Finally, just look at CEO compensation. 40 or 50 years ago it was 25 to 50 times that of the average worker and now it’s several hundred times as much. In order for this to be truly justified, are CEO really being that much more productive relative to their employees now versus then? Or put another way, have workers become that much more unproductive relative to CEOs? - No. quite the opposite is true. Worker productivity has soared since the early ‘70s despite the fact that relative wages have more or less stagnated.

The point is that both sides are to blame and it irks me when conservatives site the problem of “entitlement mentality” is being associated exclusively with liberalism and that if we did things their way America would be great again. Sorry, no deal. 8 years under Bush conservatism was entitlement mentality at its worst. I don’t think we’ve ever had a political leader who felt more entitled than he did to do pretty much whatever he damn well pleased regardless of what others think as long as it made him, his buddies and others in the upper classes richer. I think the best way to conclude this would be to say when it comes to this issue and the two ends of the political spectrum each side is guilty of what the other side says about them. And until we move beyond petty bickering and truly realize what what the essence of most of our problems is (we feel we deserve more than we are willing to work or pay for) America is going nowhere fast no matter who’s running the country.
 
Social democrat here so I can't help the original poster at all.

Talk show host Dan Carlin brought up an interesting observation in his last program. After WWII, England saw the writing on the wall geopolitically, saw that they wouldn't be able to maintain their military power from the 18th and 19th century, and came up with a new plan for a smaller, more agile combat force. They didn't have the big postwar economic boom that the US had, and the 60s and 70s were not that fun for England. That said, they made it through and are a good country today.

The United States, it seems, it still living with a Cold War mentality, except now the Ruskies have been replaced by Ahmed the Terrorist. Whatever opposing force is needed to keep the military industrial complex going.

It's not just the huge defence spending. Your well-meaning but politically moronic parents who might call Obama a socialist after he gives out one of the biggest care packages to private insurers; these are the people bothering to vote these days? Really?

And to think in the post Cold War 90s we were worried about Kennedy-esque BJs in the White House....man those days seem nostalgic now don't they?

So who ruined the party? Are Americans really going to give the victory to Osama Bin Laden? Judging what the U.S. has become in the 00s (mainly "despicable"), it seems like the government and a large segment of the population has indeed given him exactly what he wanted, and probably more.

It seems we're trying to keep this huge, hollow, starving 20th century version of America propped up into the 2020s, whether it be clinging to the Communist Boogieman, clinging to Social Security, clinging to the Military Industrial Complex. And it's obviously not working. As the baby boomers retire we'll really begin to see a nation in decline.
 
yes, that is indeed a problem and something has to give as we have more people that will be withdrawing from the system than paying into it. The problem is no one is willing to give up anything as everyone feels completely entitled to what they think they deserve.

the real problem is our aging society.
 
I agree with much of the OP and have proclaimed in similar note previously. Blaming 16 year olds for getting pregnant is a bit harsh, however, it's more the society that enables that behaviour. In Scandinavian countries, CEO's only earn typically 5-10 times the average employee salary. So, even the US CEO compensation standards of the 1970s would be deemed excessive.
 
From Dallas News


Friday, August 21, 2009

Steven Malanga

In Democracy in America, Alexis de Tocqueville worried that free, capitalist societies might develop so great a "taste for physical gratification" that citizens would be "carried away and lose all self-restraint." Avidly seeking personal gain, they could "lose sight of the close connection which exists between the private fortune of each of them and the prosperity of all" and ultimately undermine both democracy and prosperity.

The genius of America in the early 19th century, Tocqueville thought, was that it pursued "productive industry" without a descent into lethal materialism. Behind America's balancing act, the pioneering French social thinker noted, lay a common set of civic virtues that celebrated not merely hard work but also thrift, integrity, self-reliance and modesty – virtues that grew out of the pervasiveness of religion.

Some 75 years later, sociologist Max Weber dubbed the qualities that Tocqueville observed the "Protestant ethic" and considered them the cornerstone of successful capitalism. Like Tocqueville, Weber saw that ethic most fully realized in America, where it pervaded the society. Preached by luminaries like Benjamin Franklin, taught in public schools, embodied in popular novels, repeated in self-improvement books and transmitted to immigrants, that ethic undergirded and promoted America's economic success.

What would Tocqueville or Weber think of America today? In place of thrift, they would find a nation of debtors, staggering beneath loans obtained under false pretenses. In place of a steady, patient accumulation of wealth, they would find bankers and financiers with such a short-term perspective that they never pause to consider the consequences or risks of selling securities they don't understand. In place of a country where all a man asks of government is "not to be disturbed in his toil," as Tocqueville put it, they would find a nation of rent-seekers demanding government subsidies to purchase homes, start new ventures or bail out old ones.

They would find what Tocqueville described as the "fatal circle" of materialism – the cycle of acquisition and gratification that drives people back to ever more frenetic acquisition and that ultimately undermines prosperous democracies.

And they would understand why. After flourishing for three centuries in America, the Protestant ethic began to disintegrate, with key elements slowly disappearing from modern American society, vanishing from schools, business, popular culture, and leaving us with an economic system unmoored from the restraints of civic virtue.

Not even Adam Smith – who was a moral philosopher, after all – imagined capitalism operating in such an ethical vacuum. Bailout plans, new regulatory schemes and monetary policy moves won't be enough to spur a robust, long-term revival of American economic opportunity without some renewal of what was once understood as the work ethic – not just hard work but also a set of accompanying virtues, whose crucial role in the development and sustaining of free markets too few now recall.
 
Lotta hard truth in this thread. Hopefully enough Americans will come to understand these things.
 
There's this interesting 'American exceptionalism' belief as well. That every person in America, from birth, has the same, equal chance to make something of himself if he works hard enough.

"Why tax the rich when I could be one of them one day if I keep packaging these Big Macs and scrubbing these grills as best as I can? I'm gonna make it one day, guys, I'm gonna be somebody."

kysXO.jpg
 
Good point. But then again, some people also want to strive for a better life so they can give back to their community and so their family doesn't have to worry anymore, too. At least, that's how I'd do things (and just 'cause I want to do what I love for a living, too). But maybe I'm just weird that way :p.

Lotta hard truth in this thread. Hopefully enough Americans will come to understand these things.

Didn't Carter say something similar in the '70s? We all know what happened after that.

I fully agree with your hope, and maybe history won't repeat itself. But who knows anymore.

Angela
 
I actually think that excessive CEO salaries are one of Americas strong points. Have any of you ever been to a backward country? Where children drop out of school because there is no point? Women don't bother getting an education and just go to college to meet a doctor?

There is a certain 'avant garde' aspect to big salaries, just to enrage the lower the lower classes. Which is ok too.
 
While all those social issues occurring and America going down, the Chinese are quietly progressing so rapidly that their economy will reach the US economic potential in less than 100 years.

Foreign immigrants expecting to come to the US will not have to learn English, but rather move to China and learn Chinese.
 
I actually think that excessive CEO salaries are one of Americas strong points. Have any of you ever been to a backward country? Where children drop out of school because there is no point? Women don't bother getting an education and just go to college to meet a doctor?

There is a certain 'avant garde' aspect to big salaries, just to enrage the lower the lower classes. Which is ok too.
what does the average salary of a ceo have to do with these "backward" mentalities? people don't drop out of school in said countries because a ceo earns less, but rather than there's even more (economic) inequality there. or because education is less important there and you're expected to take up the family business, so there's no need for higher education.

i'd be curious though to know why you think a ceo actually needs more money than they could possibly spend and give away, especially when these high salaries can come at the expensive of thousands of lower-paid employees.
 
The title says it all. I believe the sense of entitlement that a growing number of people have come to have over recent decades is slowly killing America and other western countries. This issue is one that has been championed by political conservatives and while they are right on many accounts they don’t seem to understand that they are just as much a cause of the problem as those on the left.

...

The point is that both sides are to blame and it irks me when conservatives site the problem of “entitlement mentality” is being associated exclusively with liberalism and that if we did things their way America would be great again. Sorry, no deal. 8 years under Bush conservatism was entitlement mentality at its worst. I don’t think we’ve ever had a political leader who felt more entitled than he did to do pretty much whatever he damn well pleased regardless of what others think as long as it made him, his buddies and others in the upper classes richer. I think the best way to conclude this would be to say when it comes to this issue and the two ends of the political spectrum each side is guilty of what the other side says about them. And until we move beyond petty bickering and truly realize what what the essence of most of our problems is (we feel we deserve more than we are willing to work or pay for) America is going nowhere fast no matter who’s running the country.

Sounds like we need a strong leader, someone who can cut through the disagreement and demand consensus.

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I actually think that excessive CEO salaries are one of Americas strong points. Have any of you ever been to a backward country? Where children drop out of school because there is no point? Women don't bother getting an education and just go to college to meet a doctor?

You must have missed this, posted earlier by financeguy:

In Scandinavian countries, CEO's only earn typically 5-10 times the average employee salary.

They're definitely slumming it out there in Norway with a standard of life measurably and consistently higher than that of an American.
 
One of my recent blogs is on the issue of how people are paid. ..the focus is why teachers are paid so little, but perhaps it speaks to the issue of CEO pay as well.

Here's the link for those that are interested:

Here in America: The Best Job in the World: "Nobody Goes Into this Job for the Money"

Fantastic blog. I liked your discussion about sports figures in comparison to teaching jobs. I have no problem with genuinely talented sports figures or musicians or actors getting paid, and paid well, for what they do (especially if they do use some of that money to give back to those who helped them get where they were and stuff). I want to be a writer, and I'd certainly love to be able to make enough to have a comfortable living.

But it has always been a gripe of mine that they get paid more than people such as teachers, firefighters, police, what have you. However, your theory as to why makes perfect sense.

And I also liked this part:

After all, there are those who pursue medicine, law, or even professional sports “for the money” but the system ensures that the merely greedy will not succeed. First and foremost they must excel at what they do, and the same would be true for highly paid teachers. Granted, if nothing about our current approach to teaching changed except that we doubled all teachers’ salaries, you would have greedy, unprincipled people joining the teaching ranks just for the paycheck. But an increase in pay that came as a result of greater societal respect and greater selectivity in training and hiring would actually ensure that more than likely the teacher working with your child isn’t there solely because of the money.

Despite the hurdles of overwork, under-appreciation, and low pay countless excellent teachers continue to go to work every day in schools all across America. They believe that every child is of worth and value; they are eternal optimists, picturing every child as a success—perhaps not now, but surely someday. They may not make a lot of money, but they believe in their hearts that they are making something far more important: a difference.

Fully agreed. I don't understand the belief some people having about how teaching is an "easy" job that you alluded to. I've never thought that. It's not enough to just stand there and rattle off facts in front of a chalkboard. You have to do so in a way that the people you're telling this information to will understand it. You have to hold their attention. You have to know the material well enough to show you even have an idea of what you're talking about. You have to be comfortable speaking in front of people. You have to know what information is of particular note that demands to be taught. You have to have an inordinate amount of patience. And so on. I don't get how people don't realize that.

Thanks for the link, I'll have to look through your blog and see what else you have to say on other sorts of topics :).

Angela
 
Fully agreed. I don't understand the belief some people having about how teaching is an "easy" job that you alluded to.

The job itself is very hard, but the process of becoming a teacher is ridiculously easy.

Thanks for the link, I'll have to look through your blog and see what else you have to say on other sorts of topics :).

Angela

Thank you! :)
 
Fantastic blog. I liked your discussion about sports figures in comparison to teaching jobs. I have no problem with genuinely talented sports figures or musicians or actors getting paid, and paid well, for what they do

[...]

But it has always been a gripe of mine that they get paid more than people such as teachers, firefighters, police, what have you. However, your theory as to why makes perfect sense.
You know, my attitude toward pro athlete salaries and Hollywood salaries is interestingly pretty "devil's advocate" for these forums.

For the 'aggregate amount of happiness' a successful or even mediocre sports franchise can bring to the collective hearts of a city or region, I don't think pro athletes are overpaid at all. The nightly movements of star pro athletes are directly or indirectly related to national business, advertising, local business, etc.

For a sports fan or even a casual follower of a certain team, a local sports franchise is a quality of life factor, no matter how ridiculous that looks in writing, and pro sports are one of the broadest, most accessible 'past-times' out there.
 
A unionized public employee, a Tea Partier and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, then looks at the Tea Partier and says “Watch out for that union guy—he wants a piece of your cookie!”
 
A unionized public employee, a Tea Partier and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies, then looks at the Tea Partier and says “Watch out for that union guy—he wants a piece of your cookie!”

:up:
 
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