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Old 08-27-2009, 08:40 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by toscano View Post
Speculation and assumption

That's one hell of a glass house you live in there !

And I'm not a US citizen

So many assumptions, so few facts.....
Well, ok, here are some facts:

Stats on police killings in the US:

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About 9,500 people nationally were killed by police during the years 1980 to 2005–an average of nearly one fatal shooting per day.
Killed by the Cops By Jeff Kelly Lowenstein


Stats on police killings in the UK:

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According to an October 2005 article in The Independent, in the preceding 12 years, 30 people had been shot dead by police,
Police use of firearms in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In other words, adjusted for population, the number of people killed by police per annum in the US is approximately THIRTY TIMES HIGHER than in the UK.

Granted, police in the US often operate in a more dangerous environment, which I think is part of the problem.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:44 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Well, ok, here are some facts:



Killed by the Cops By Jeff Kelly Lowenstein




Police use of firearms in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In other words, adjusted for population, the number of people killed by police per annum in the US is approximately THIRTY TIMES HIGHER than in the UK.
Hardly surprising given the easy accessibility of firearms to the general population over here.

Got any data on Police killed by citizens ? I'd guess it's >30X higher than the rate in the UK
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:45 PM   #168
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financeguy, you're still not showing the link between police abuse and why drinking and driving laws should be looked at in a more libertarian view...
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:48 PM   #169
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financeguy, you're still not showing the link between police abuse and why drinking and driving laws should be looked at in a more libertarian view...
When did I say there was such a link?

I am merely arguing against the dangers of excess state powers.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:00 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by toscano View Post
Hardly surprising given the easy accessibility of firearms to the general population over here.
Very probably, that is a factor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toscano View Post
Got any data on Police killed by citizens ? I'd guess it's >30X higher than the rate in the UK

Seemingly not. It's only around four times higher.


Number of police killed, assaulted on duty dips in '05 - USATODAY.com

BBC NEWS | UK | Killed in the line of duty

The number of citizens killed by US police is on average seven times higher per annum than the number of US police murdered in the course of duty.

By contrast, in the UK the number of police murdered while on duty is approximately the same, on average, per annum, as the number of citizens killed by police.

Note, all such deaths, whether police murdered by criminals, or citizens killed by police, are to be regretted by all right-thinking citizens, but the stats, at this point, seem to back up my thesis.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:03 PM   #171
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When did I say there was such a link?

I am merely arguing against the dangers of excess state powers.
Then what does this mean?

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Right, ok, funny. But given the US cops have just killed a citizen yet again ..., perhaps it's about time the libertarian argument was given a hearing, don't you think?
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Old 08-28-2009, 09:49 AM   #172
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I think what neither of you two guys grasp is that it these kinds of events are, though not completely unheard of, very unusual in Europe and when they do happen, most people are disgusted and full independent investigations are conducted, e.g.:
America has a much higher Asshole Per Capita than any European country. I think 9 out of 10 times you'll find the person on the receiving end of an excessive treatment probably could have avoided the situation by doing as he/she was asked - granted, not always, and granted, there are cops that go way too far - but whether we want to accept it or not, the vast majority of police just want to do their job and go home after work.
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Old 08-28-2009, 11:13 AM   #173
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never thought i'd see the day where someone is defending drunk driving in order to get a rise out of people on FYM.

but i guess it's here.
There are no limits, you can take that to the bank
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Old 08-28-2009, 06:49 PM   #174
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I'm against them in person, the FYM rise is just a bonus.
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Old 09-08-2009, 10:51 PM   #175
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Very, very interesting if you're a legal geek, and I think even if you're not...

CTV.ca | Quebec drunk driver could be imprisoned 20 years
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:09 PM   #176
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^ Not a sympathetic defendant, that's for sure.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:25 PM   #177
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If you kill someone, sober or drunk, I'm fine with you going away for 20 yrs.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:06 PM   #178
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Walsh has 114 criminal convictions on his record, including 19 drinking and driving offences.
Why the fuck wasn't he already off the streets.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:08 PM   #179
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Why the fuck wasn't he already off the streets.
Because the "tyrannical" drunk driving laws are incredibly lax.

But let's not let that get in the way of a good FYM rant.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:36 PM   #180
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Why the fuck wasn't he already off the streets.
We had two recent DUI crashes around here from folks who didn't have a license. I don't know how they manage to get back behind the wheel. I guess criminals don't care about laws.
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