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Old 11-14-2008, 10:39 AM   #1
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The Big Three Automakers?

Save em? Or let em fail?



I lean towards let them fail as they have been without innovation for years. And when a company grows stagnant, the market eats it. I think that's what we're seeing here,and as far as I'm concerned, it's their own faults.

On the flip side, this would impact a large part of the population. Hopefully some would go on to start new companies that will succeed, and then rehire many of those effected, but that would obviously take some time. The interim would be brutal.

I don't know if there's a 3rd option or not, but save them and ensure that they meet certain milestones along the way - innovation, green technology for improved fuel standards, safety, etc etc etc.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:02 AM   #2
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I'm torn on this one...

On the one hand, it's very true that it is their own fault. Anyone could see that the potential for higher oil prices combined with the Big Three's flagrant production of oversized vehicles with wasteful levels of fuel consumption was clearly a disaster waiting to happen. The fact that they were more interested in profit over conservation angers me to no end...

On the other hand, the auto manufacturing sector really is the backbone of the economy, more so in the US then here in Canada but the province I live in (Ontario) will most likely be hit the hardest since we have the largest amount of auto workers...

I really don't know.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:04 AM   #3
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You guys make our cars?
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:06 AM   #4
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In some cases, yes.

Some of the larger cities in southern Ontario near Detroit (Windsor most notebly) were pretty much founded on the auto industry...
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:15 AM   #5
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The thing you have to remember is that it's not just the people who make the cars and trucks but also the people who make the thousands of different parts and components that go into the cars and trucks...

Should a small company which makes locking mechanisms for Ford pay the price for Ford's stupidity?
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:23 AM   #6
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I say wait until I get another job and then let em fail...

Living near Detroit, and working for one of them, it's been depressing the last few years, but honestly, when you hear of the bigwigs giving themselves bonuses while laying off the worker bees, it pisses me off to no end, and I hope that one day they all do go down the crapper. On the other hand, I'd rather be off that sinking ship before it happens.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:28 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by LarryMullen's POPAngel View Post
Living near Detroit, and working for one of them, it's been depressing the last few years, but honestly, when you hear of the bigwigs giving themselves bonuses while laying off the worker bees, it pisses me off to no end, and I hope that one day they all do go down the crapper. On the other hand, I'd rather be off that sinking ship before it happens.
Yup, and it's things like that that say to me, "They're done. They've made themselves obsolete by turning themselves into profit machines for the few." It's a shame. CEO's don't seem to have much a stake in companies anymore - they make millions either way. Pisses me off.

el-fa - it sucks that the lock companies will be effected. Hopefully they will be able to work with whatever comes to fill the void.

Anyone want to open a car company with me?
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:35 AM   #8
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I’m in, what do you want to call it?

We also need to think of fancy names for the cars... like Panther or Excelsior!
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:49 AM   #9
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I think they should do a bailout with preconditions.

The auto industry has been catering to the oil tychoons far too long, at the very least we could have affordable vehicles that get almost 2x the MPG that we have today, the technology is out there.

They've shot themselves in the foot, they are extremely stagnant, but like elevated said it affects a much bigger circle than just the "big 3"...
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:59 AM   #10
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The world has too many automakers, big banks, airlines, etc. More mergers would be a good idea imo.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:02 PM   #11
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centralization is a dirty word in America....
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberBeaver View Post
Save em? Or let em fail?



I lean towards let them fail as they have been without innovation for years. And when a company grows stagnant, the market eats it. I think that's what we're seeing here,and as far as I'm concerned, it's their own faults.

On the flip side, this would impact a large part of the population. Hopefully some would go on to start new companies that will succeed, and then rehire many of those effected, but that would obviously take some time. The interim would be brutal.

I don't know if there's a 3rd option or not, but save them and ensure that they meet certain milestones along the way - innovation, green technology for improved fuel standards, safety, etc etc etc.

If my industry couldn't be competitive we'd be out of business, losing 20,000 people worldwide.

Having said that, any bailout should come with a set of conditions which includes a business plan to streamline/consolidate.

They make too many models which people don't want, their quality still isn't close to Japanese, or even Korean levels, etc.

Do we REALLY need a Ford, Lincoln and Mercury ?
Do we REALLY need a Chrysler, Plymouth and Dodge ?
Do we REALLY need a Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Saturn and Pontiac ?

There are too many models, too many brands, too much overlap.

The main Japanese companies have, at the most, TWO brands (Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, Toyota/Lexus) and most other major guys don't even have THAT.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:06 PM   #13
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Do we REALLY need a Ford, Lincoln and Mercury ?
Do we REALLY need a Chrysler, Plymouth and Dodge ?
this is an excellent point, we don't have the Mercury or Plymouth models here in Canada and we're not suffering or anything... I've always wondered why they do this since it's the same exact fucking car!
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:07 PM   #14
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If they don't figure out their lavish union benefits and look at what Toyota does it won't matter what funds are sent to them. If the management and infrastructure doesn't change it will be like the banks: The money won't be spent the way government thinks it will be.

Bankruptcy protection will lead to renegotiation of loans and if that isn't good enough some other company with a better business model will buy them up. Ford has been known by consumer reports and other auto reviewers to have shoddy reliability and lots of recalls, hence the value of Ford vehicles drop faster than Toyota.

Also the general population is up to their necks in debt so even if the big three make better cars there is still too much production and inventory on the market. The population has to deleverage for a while before people can even afford another car.
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:39 PM   #15
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If they don't figure out their lavish union benefits
Union benefits are the LEAST of their problems (for now).

The more pressing issue is that they can't make reliable cars, they have zero ability to read where a market will go, they have too many models and too many factories.

Once they fix all that, then they need to look at their Production costs, which will include the union-related spend.
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