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#1 |
Breakdancing Soul Pilgrim
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: the most serious...douch hammer ever
Posts: 20,318
Local Time: 04:09 PM
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The Big Three Automakers?
Save em? Or let em fail?
__________________I lean towards let them fail as they have been without innovation for years. And when a company grows stagnant, the market eats it. I think that's what we're seeing here,and as far as I'm concerned, it's their own faults. On the flip side, this would impact a large part of the population. Hopefully some would go on to start new companies that will succeed, and then rehire many of those effected, but that would obviously take some time. The interim would be brutal. I don't know if there's a 3rd option or not, but save them and ensure that they meet certain milestones along the way - innovation, green technology for improved fuel standards, safety, etc etc etc.
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#2 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
Posts: 31,746
Local Time: 05:09 PM
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I'm torn on this one...
__________________On the one hand, it's very true that it is their own fault. Anyone could see that the potential for higher oil prices combined with the Big Three's flagrant production of oversized vehicles with wasteful levels of fuel consumption was clearly a disaster waiting to happen. The fact that they were more interested in profit over conservation angers me to no end... On the other hand, the auto manufacturing sector really is the backbone of the economy, more so in the US then here in Canada but the province I live in (Ontario) will most likely be hit the hardest since we have the largest amount of auto workers... I really don't know.
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#3 |
Breakdancing Soul Pilgrim
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: the most serious...douch hammer ever
Posts: 20,318
Local Time: 04:09 PM
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You guys make our cars?
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#4 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
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Local Time: 05:09 PM
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In some cases, yes.
Some of the larger cities in southern Ontario near Detroit (Windsor most notebly) were pretty much founded on the auto industry...
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#5 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
Posts: 31,746
Local Time: 05:09 PM
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The thing you have to remember is that it's not just the people who make the cars and trucks but also the people who make the thousands of different parts and components that go into the cars and trucks...
Should a small company which makes locking mechanisms for Ford pay the price for Ford's stupidity?
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#6 |
Blue Crack Distributor
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: I'll be up with the sun, I'm not coming down...
Posts: 53,698
Local Time: 04:09 PM
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I say wait until I get another job and then let em fail...
Living near Detroit, and working for one of them, it's been depressing the last few years, but honestly, when you hear of the bigwigs giving themselves bonuses while laying off the worker bees, it pisses me off to no end, and I hope that one day they all do go down the crapper. On the other hand, I'd rather be off that sinking ship before it happens.
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#7 | |
Breakdancing Soul Pilgrim
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: the most serious...douch hammer ever
Posts: 20,318
Local Time: 04:09 PM
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Quote:
el-fa - it sucks that the lock companies will be effected. Hopefully they will be able to work with whatever comes to fill the void. Anyone want to open a car company with me? ![]()
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#8 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
Posts: 31,746
Local Time: 05:09 PM
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I’m in, what do you want to call it?
We also need to think of fancy names for the cars... like Panther or Excelsior!
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#9 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,963
Local Time: 04:09 PM
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I think they should do a bailout with preconditions.
![]() The auto industry has been catering to the oil tychoons far too long, at the very least we could have affordable vehicles that get almost 2x the MPG that we have today, the technology is out there. They've shot themselves in the foot, they are extremely stagnant, but like elevated said it affects a much bigger circle than just the "big 3"...
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#10 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,900
Local Time: 04:09 PM
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The world has too many automakers, big banks, airlines, etc. More mergers would be a good idea imo.
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#11 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
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Local Time: 05:09 PM
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centralization is a dirty word in America....
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#12 | |
Refugee
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 02:09 PM
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Quote:
If my industry couldn't be competitive we'd be out of business, losing 20,000 people worldwide. Having said that, any bailout should come with a set of conditions which includes a business plan to streamline/consolidate. They make too many models which people don't want, their quality still isn't close to Japanese, or even Korean levels, etc. Do we REALLY need a Ford, Lincoln and Mercury ? Do we REALLY need a Chrysler, Plymouth and Dodge ? Do we REALLY need a Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Saturn and Pontiac ? There are too many models, too many brands, too much overlap. The main Japanese companies have, at the most, TWO brands (Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, Toyota/Lexus) and most other major guys don't even have THAT.
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#13 |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: I'm here 'cus I don't want to go home
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Local Time: 05:09 PM
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this is an excellent point, we don't have the Mercury or Plymouth models here in Canada and we're not suffering or anything... I've always wondered why they do this since it's the same exact fucking car!
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#14 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In right wing paranoia
Posts: 7,601
Local Time: 03:09 PM
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If they don't figure out their lavish union benefits and look at what Toyota does it won't matter what funds are sent to them. If the management and infrastructure doesn't change it will be like the banks: The money won't be spent the way government thinks it will be.
Bankruptcy protection will lead to renegotiation of loans and if that isn't good enough some other company with a better business model will buy them up. Ford has been known by consumer reports and other auto reviewers to have shoddy reliability and lots of recalls, hence the value of Ford vehicles drop faster than Toyota. Also the general population is up to their necks in debt so even if the big three make better cars there is still too much production and inventory on the market. The population has to deleverage for a while before people can even afford another car.
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#15 |
Refugee
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,032
Local Time: 02:09 PM
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Union benefits are the LEAST of their problems (for now).
__________________The more pressing issue is that they can't make reliable cars, they have zero ability to read where a market will go, they have too many models and too many factories. Once they fix all that, then they need to look at their Production costs, which will include the union-related spend.
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