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Old 07-29-2011, 02:44 AM   #91
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If I was a Norwegian criminal defense lawyer, I would do it for the normal rate - no more, no less. It would be a very interesting, albeit traumatic, case to work on, and you would learn a lot.






Most criminal justice systems are too focused on punishment and not enough on rehabilitaton. Norway's is much better than most in this regard. I hope they do not change it.
Yeah but my point is how can you live with the fact you're defending a man who did this? Law isn't my field, so I'm a bit naive, but still...

My point there is why should a man like this be given the chance to rehabilitate?
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:33 AM   #92
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Yeah but my point is how can you live with the fact you're defending a man who did this? Law isn't my field, so I'm a bit naive, but still...
'Defending him' certainly doesn't mean, or doesn't have to mean, 'trying to get him off'. It's vitally important, even in a situation like this, to make sure everything is done fairly and to the letter of the law. 'The defense' in this case might be purely about making sure they dot every 'i', cross every 't', kind of thing. Possibly more about defending the law, defending the system, than anything else. I mean, you certainly don't want something like some silly administrative cock up getting in between this guy and what he deserves.

However - that of course that might not be the case and it might get interesting. It doesn't sound like his lawyer is trying to deny or dilute what he's done thus far, but the killer has pleaded 'not guilty'. Not as a denial of his actions, he's not claiming to have not set off the bombs and shot up the island, but that those actions weren't murder, but instead justified for whatever reason. Where that goes during the trial, and if/how his defense try and argue that, we'll see.
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:40 AM   #93
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It's the youth wing of a political party, no?
Even the youth can be politically active. Don't know about Ireland, but in Germany every party has a youth organisation where they sometimes even meet to exchange ideas and discuss politics.
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:59 AM   #94
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In Sweden every political party has a youth organization, like in Norway. They are actually quite independent in their relations to the "mother-party", and it's more common that the youth organizations try to lead the mother-party in a particular direction than the opposite.
I think it's a good thing that teenagers want to change the wrongs they see and do it in a democratic way. Most of our leading politicians started their careers in these organizations, learned how the democratic process works.
I actually can't see what is disturbing about that.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:09 AM   #95
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It's pretty common everywhere. Although, the youngest at this camp (or the youngest killed) was 14, which is fairly young? I know the 'Young Liberals' in Australia, membership is 16 and over.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:36 AM   #96
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Whether he gets 21 or 30 years, he will still live the good life:



Could Norway rampage suspect go to posh prison? - World Watch - CBS News
Right now he's at Ila prison which is high security and not posh. He was meant to be sent to Ringeriket prison but he would have had a window view over Tyrifjord where Utøya is so that was decided against.
I haven't read anything in our newspapers about him being sent to Halden but it's hard to follow everything about this case now because there's so much being written.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:42 AM   #97
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In Norway does the defendant have the right to refuse an insanity defense? (Assuming he's found competent to stand trial in the first place.)[/QUOTE]

I don't know, I can't remember any similar case right now and I'm no expert when it comes to our law system.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:37 PM   #98
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Yeah but my point is how can you live with the fact you're defending a man who did this? Law isn't my field, so I'm a bit naive, but still...

My point there is why should a man like this be given the chance to rehabilitate?
The general worry that you're defending a man who very likely committed heinous acts is mitigated by the fact it should therefore be proportionally trivial for the prosecution to make its case. As Earnie said the defense attorney's probably making sure that the prosecution is just as diligent at following the law as they would be for anyone else whose guilt is less likely.

And the inverse is even more significant, IMO. Being able to say "even THIS GUY" got fair treatment under the law is a powerful moral bludgeon for ensuring due process for "ordinary" citizens accused of crimes.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:20 PM   #99
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Jeez, I'm not suggesting there's anything strange about youth wings of political parties per se - it's just the idea of summer camp run by a political party and devoted, at least in part, to political discussions - that's the thing I find vaguely creepy. Not a lot - just vaguely.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:01 PM   #100
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for the record I couldn't think of anything I'd rather do less than go away camping and talk about politics.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:18 PM   #101
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Jeez, I'm not suggesting there's anything strange about youth wings of political parties per se - it's just the idea of summer camp run by a political party and devoted, at least in part, to political discussions - that's the thing I find vaguely creepy. Not a lot - just vaguely.
It's normal in Norway that young people are interested in politics and I think it's more healthy than being a complete ignorant to how politics works.
All the parties in Norway can have this youths camps and it's not like they are being indoctrinated, everyone are free to discuss.
Of course it will be a lot harder on the right wing Islam critical party now but they have also received support from members from other parties.

Do anyone know if any member of U2 have commented the terror attack? I saw that they dedicated "Stuck in a Moment" to Winehouse the day after the attack but I haven't found any comments from them about the shooting. To be frank my heart sinks a little here.
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:45 AM   #102
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Do anyone know if any member of U2 have commented the terror attack? I saw that they dedicated "Stuck in a Moment" to Winehouse the day after the attack but I haven't found any comments from them about the shooting. To be frank my heart sinks a little here.
This upset me at the Minneapolis show. It was fine to dedicate Stuck to Winehouse, but it would have been decent of Bono to say something (and Minnesota is loaded with Norwegians. Spring Grove, Minnesota has the highest percentage Norwegian ancestry of any city in the U.S.).

I know the Horn of Africa was on his mind because he had just come from a meeting before the concert, but still...
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:40 PM   #103
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His trial began yesterday.

He gave a Nazi salute before sitting down, acknowledged the attacks but did not plead guilty as he felt it was an act of "self-defence" and then finally broke down and cried - when watching a video of his own propoganda.

Due process, fair trial, I know all of that bullshit. But facts are facts. This cunt of human murdered 77 people and injured dozens more in cold blood. Dig up the most horrendous form of torture and submit him to it.

His sanity or insanity is the big sticking point in this case.

If he doesn't get numerous life sentences I'll lose whatever faith I have in courts of law.

Breivik Trial | Anders Behring Breivik Cries While Watching Video
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:41 PM   #104
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for the record I couldn't think of anything I'd rather do less than go away camping and talk about politics.
Funny how things change.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:27 PM   #105
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His sanity or insanity is the big sticking point in this case.
He is clearly functionally insane. Kind of like a psychopath: he knows what he did was wrong, but he does not care.

I'm sure Norway will put him for a long time, and along the way, look for reasons to keep him locked up.
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