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Old 02-22-2010, 12:41 AM   #31
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The entitlement I'm talking about is being crude to others because others don't matter. It's clear the narcissism is increasing due to the fact that religion was replaced with nothing for many people.
The first sentence here I just plain disagree with.

But the second sentence here is insultingly stupid. Just absolutely moronic.
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Old 02-22-2010, 12:42 AM   #32
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don't pretend like you don't like it, sweetheart.
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That is so Mad Men.
Joan is unimpressed by such bullshittery.

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Old 02-22-2010, 12:48 AM   #33
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:01 AM   #34
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Honestly I still can't get past this. I don't know where it is that you work, and maybe it is totally different than my place of employment, but there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD that I can imagine that a male lawyer would be asked at a firm interview how it is that he deals with women. I don't even have words for that, to be honest. And I have a hard time understanding why this is asked at an interview, why it's ok for something like this to be asked, and furthermore what these alleged "right answers" are.

As for this alleged women's expectation that you should protect our feelings, also really strange - I don't know what that even means, nevermind that I find it to be completely untrue of my workplace environment.
BTW this is the second interview where I was asked about my ability to work with women. About 80% of my office is female and it was about 90% in the last office. To me I focus on narcissism because I find that in accounting (probably similar in other jobs or professions that can provide grandiosity) there is a high rate of it. The superficiality is extreme. All people talk about is vacations and nice cars or show envy against those that do enjoy those things already. I'm more humanistic so I don't really care about impermanent objects or consumer addictions but I always have to be careful with treading on egos because I've been very naive in the past and being on the wrong end of narcissists and it was the most draining harrowing twilight zone experience of my life. Yet when you find good partners to work with many accountants try and keep that dynamic going for decades if possible.

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I know. My first reaction would be, "... is this a trick question?" Is there an appropriate answer other than "like a human being?"
No the right answer is that I can work with women and that I'm not a bully. My head-hunter did say that there are some who have trouble working under women but they have a place in different offices. Obviously ones with more men. Some offices are more laid back and some you can hear a pin drop and there's enormous fear. I have a collegue from school who worked for a narcissist who head-hunters refused to assign temp workers to because of her brutality. I've heard other stories from other accountants that were worse than mine. When it comes to slapping on the ass I haven't seen in this new job any behaviour like that but it's still early. The only partner's weaknesses I've witnessed so far are drinking.

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You're certainly not shy about pronouncing opinion as fact.
Don't misunderstand. I don't think being born again is the answer to our woes. It's just that Church for Western Civilization had a constant influence to try and struggle with those ego problems and as people go it alone (due to the fact that Churches have scandals and the religion has major flaws) people can throw out the baby with the bathwater. It would be nice if most secular people had some contemplation practice but my opinion is that they don't in large numbers.

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I'm somewhat amazed by how disconnected from reality you are, yet I'm not.
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You're certainly not shy about pronouncing opinion as fact.

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And then I'm befuddled by how you blame narcissism in a very narcissistic tone yet don't even realize the irony.
Yeah because you can read forum text tone so well that you can diagnose NPD through the internet? Gimmie a break.

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Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
Put your Alinsky book down for a second and actually engage in a real conversation. I'm not the only person in the world to deal with narcissists and there's an entire psychological literature on the subject. I'm not the first to talk about it and I won't be the last.
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:16 AM   #35
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The first sentence here I just plain disagree with.

But the second sentence here is insultingly stupid. Just absolutely moronic.
I was talking about narcissists and bad behaviour which fits nicely with grade 10 students being rough with girls. I don't think the teacher is being sexist if he teaches them some manners. They certainly aren't learning manners from Church if they don't go there so the education system has to replace what is missing. The Church did supply basic manners and morals and when an institution like that falls apart there's a gap that will need to be filled.

So if I'm a moron then please continue with your analysis of class and rich people. I want to see where you go with this. Maybe you're right.
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:19 AM   #36
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Other than to say that purpleoscar seems to have a tendency to take his narrow experiences and extrapolate them to the general population, I really don't know what to say in response to his comments. I'm at a loss.

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It's a different time, but I think the whole perception that this generation has worse behavior than the last one is pure bullshit. I think that perception has happened with every generation for a very long time.
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I disagree, it starts at home. In my line of work, I get to deal with "helicopter parents" face to face all the time. We once had a parent come in and ask if she could do a job interview for her son. We are talking about college, someone 18 years old at minimum and his MOM not only wanted to do the job interview in his place, but it was her idea! I am 100% convinced that the self-entitlement attitude we are now seeing starts at home. Manners, responsibility, accountability....these are things that parents need to teach. That's not to say they can't be valued in school as well but it's the parents responsibility to teach their child, not shelter them, spoil them, and make excuses for them. I am consistently embarrassed by peers in my generation who seem to think they deserve everything their parents have (job security, comfortable home, life savings and retirement...) without having to actually work for it.
As for the question of manners being a generational thing, I can address these two posts, and say that no, in my experience (and I tend to be very aware of manners, they're important to me), there are ill-mannered older people who seem to be raising equally ill-mannered kids. Some people have them and pass them down, others don't, sadly.

I know a LOT of kids, through my daughter, who have impeccable manners.
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Old 02-22-2010, 07:28 AM   #37
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Just treat us equally, please.
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:42 AM   #38
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Just treat us equally, please.
Agreed.


And there are plenty of kids these days who have great manners. It's just the rotten apples people focus on and those you hear about. I do agree it's mostly the responsibility of the parents, and if they have bad manners the kids are likely to take after them.
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:49 AM   #39
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Other than to say that purpleoscar seems to have a tendency to take his narrow experiences and extrapolate them to the general population, I really don't know what to say in response to his comments. I'm at a loss.
^

This.

Also, every time he's spoken of his experiences, I can find nothing in them that even remotely rings true or familiar to me, from his workplace to his university environment, so I'm not quite sure what it is about our worlds that is so infinitely different.
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:11 AM   #40
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Yeah because you can read forum text tone so well that you can diagnose NPD through the internet? Gimmie a break.
I'm not diagnosing anything, just relaying what I and many others are reading.


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Put your Alinsky book down for a second and actually engage in a real conversation. I'm not the only person in the world to deal with narcissists and there's an entire psychological literature on the subject. I'm not the first to talk about it and I won't be the last.
You missed my point by miles... Read VP's post she summarized it very nicely.
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:18 AM   #41
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I was talking about narcissists and bad behaviour which fits nicely with grade 10 students being rough with girls. I don't think the teacher is being sexist if he teaches them some manners. They certainly aren't learning manners from Church if they don't go there so the education system has to replace what is missing. The Church did supply basic manners and morals and when an institution like that falls apart there's a gap that will need to be filled.

So if I'm a moron then please continue with your analysis of class and rich people. I want to see where you go with this. Maybe you're right.

Where did you grow up that your parents sent you to church to learn manners, or where church was needed at all to learn manners in the first place?
How I love this logic, that without religion anything goes for one, the morals go downhill, manners that have been tradition for centuries are vanishing bla bla bla.
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:32 AM   #42
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To me I focus on narcissism because I find that in accounting (probably similar in other jobs or professions that can provide grandiosity) there is a high rate of it. The superficiality is extreme. All people talk about is vacations and nice cars or show envy against those that do enjoy those things already.
Yes, this is all that everyone around me discusses.

For the record, I have no idea what kind of car a single lawyer on my floor (35 of them or so) drives. But if you need to keep telling yourself that material things are the main topic of conversation to keep your narcissism theory going, enjoy.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:23 AM   #43
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I'm not diagnosing anything, just relaying what I and many others are reading.
Yes you are. You called me a narcissist to try and "discredit" me. You're a crank and I'm not the only one that has called you on it.

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You missed my point by miles... Read VP's post she summarized it very nicely.
VP's point has nothing to do with narcissism. My experiences aren't only my own since I've met others that have had similiar experiences. There are entire books on the subject. You think narcissism in the workplace is only MY experience?

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Where did you grow up that your parents sent you to church to learn manners, or where church was needed at all to learn manners in the first place?
How I love this logic, that without religion anything goes for one, the morals go downhill, manners that have been tradition for centuries are vanishing bla bla bla.
Yeah you're right the church really had no role, bla, bla, bla.

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Yes, this is all that everyone around me discusses.
No this is not the only thing carrying a narcissist theory. They bully and can't accept constructive criticism and in professional jobs where there is nothing but constructive criticism it can be hard for people who speak up to keep their jobs when they have a boss like that. It's also hard for those people to treat girls with respect if they are so self-absorbed. If a teacher is teaching better communication and empathy then that is okay.

The only reason this thread was brought up was just to bring some argument that the teacher is anti-women in some way.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:29 AM   #44
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No this is not the only thing carrying a narcissist theory.
Well you are making the claim that people in professional careers only and exclusively talk about material things; maybe you work in some strange place where this is true but I am telling you that it's absolutely false to assume that this is some kind of standard.

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The only reason this thread was brought up was just to bring some argument that the teacher is anti-women in some way.
Are you reading the poster's mind?

I don't think this teacher is anti-woman. I think he likely has good intentions in mind, but what he's doing is over the top and frankly as a woman, the way for me to get to be a true equal isn't for a man to stand up when I walk in the room or to hold out a chair for me.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:35 AM   #45
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I was talking about narcissists and bad behaviour which fits nicely with grade 10 students being rough with girls. I don't think the teacher is being sexist if he teaches them some manners. They certainly aren't learning manners from Church if they don't go there so the education system has to replace what is missing. The Church did supply basic manners and morals and when an institution like that falls apart there's a gap that will need to be filled.

So if I'm a moron then please continue with your analysis of class and rich people. I want to see where you go with this. Maybe you're right.
I accused your statement of being moronic because you implied the only reason "manners are being lost" (a premise I disagree with strongly) is because people are moving away from religion (a premise that makes me want to strike you).

I personally believe that I have become a better person on every level since I've moved away from believing in religion. Some of the nicest, most genuine people I know are atheist all the way. Some of the most nasty and mean spirited are strongly religious.

Religious belief has nothing to do with character. That is a fact, not an opinion.
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