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Old 01-18-2013, 07:51 PM   #31
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Middle schoolers are not so naive that they don't know exactly what's going on in the video. Most middle schoolers I know, though I hate to say it, know exactly what porn is and some are even regular watchers of it.

I think it's easy to explain, and teachers aren't supposed to be role models. They are supposed to teach. I never once tried to emulate my teachers or view them as aspiring material. For one, I'd actually try paying some attention to what my kids were doing on the internet if I cared so much about porn, and for another, it can easily be explained as a personal decision she made.

"Some people try to make extra money by doing things on camera that they wouldn't normally do, and that is what your teacher did. Some people are more open about sex than others, while some will do these things because they're desperate. It's important to know that you never need to do something like that for money, you always have your family here. She made that decision in the past in a tight spot. I hope you will always make good choices that won't come to bite you in the butt years later, but know that she is clearly working hard to be a good role model now."
Are you kidding me? A teacher is definitely a role model. In fact, by the end of your post, you're saying that she should be a role model. I spent more time with my teachers in elementary school than I did with my own parents a lot of the time, they definitely impacted how I lived my life and what I did with it. I changed the entire direction of what I went to college for because of one of my teachers.

Again this issue comes back, for me, to the age factor. These are 11-13 year old boys and girls, and let's face it, the boy's ages are especially important here. You never had a crush on one of your teachers? Now what if you could go home every night and watch him/her have sex and there was no repercussion for it? It's just not condusive to a successful learning environment.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:52 PM   #32
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That's why I put that addendum second-thought bit in there. I know that. But it was one of the reactions I had, and felt like sharing it.
Oh Jesus, I read your comment wrong, I'm sorry. I thought you were saying it wouldn't have happened if it were a male teacher. Damn double negatives.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:53 PM   #33
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No, it's fine. It just occurred to me that you had misread that part of it, and I just went and edited my last post as well.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:56 PM   #34
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No, it's fine. It just occurred to me that you had misread that part of it, and I just went and edited my last post as well.
Yeah, we're all clear here now. My mistake on that one. Reading comprehension skills = The Best. Thanks, 2nd grade!
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:01 PM   #35
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Now what if you could go home every night and watch him/her have sex and there was no repercussion for it? It's just not condusive to a successful learning environment.
Whilst I don't think I even knew what porn was when I was 12, this is an important point. There was one teacher I had a massive crush on and if she had been in a porn movie I'm sure I probably would have watched it, and you're completely right, that is not conducive to a learning environment, and that's what I'm talking about when I say it could make the teacher's position untenable.

What do you guys think of this story? The journo copped a lot of shit for writing it. Explicit tweeter quits classroom
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:07 PM   #36
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Are you kidding me? A teacher is definitely a role model. In fact, by the end of your post, you're saying that she should be a role model. I spent more time with my teachers in elementary school than I did with my own parents a lot of the time, they definitely impacted how I lived my life and what I did with it. I changed the entire direction of what I went to college for because of one of my teachers.
This isn't elementary school. This is middle school, and this is ONE teacher for ONE subject who spends 40 minutes with those students a day talking about science. I'm not being contradictory in my post either by meaning one thing and saying another to a kid.

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Again this issue comes back, for me, to the age factor. These are 11-13 year old boys and girls, and let's face it, the boy's ages are especially important here. You never had a crush on one of your teachers? Now what if you could go home every night and watch him/her have sex and there was no repercussion for it? It's just not condusive to a successful learning environment.
You think boys don't go home and masturbate with their imagination, picturing the teacher naked anyway? What difference does it make if they have a photo or not? That's the parents job. Middle school is 11-14. If you think those boys weren't picturing the teacher naked in the first place, you're mistaken. Back in my middle school days my guy friends used to talk constantly about wanting to see one of our teachers naked. Middle school boys can be graphic, disgusting animals sometimes. I don't believe it's any more distracting in the classroom just because they had "proof". It's the kid's parents job to discipline them or make sure they don't watch porn, not the porn star's for happening to know those kids in person. And let's say the parents couldn't stop them, or didn't care, how exactly would them watching somebody else have sex (something they're probably already doing--just with people they don't know) have any impediment on your development or progress in science class?

My point is, boys are distracted as it is and I don't see how this makes it worse because it was already in their minds.

And again, I hate to bring up the subject of these kids masturbating but it does happen. And kids watching porn happens even more often than that. We keep pretending that this isn't already a thing when it is.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:43 PM   #37
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My point is, boys are distracted as it is and I don't see how this makes it worse because it was already in their minds.
Um, no, imagining someone naked and having to face them after you've watched them in a pornographic film are two very different things.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:24 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by ladyfreckles View Post
Middle schoolers are not so naive that they don't know exactly what's going on in the video. Most middle schoolers I know, though I hate to say it, know exactly what porn is and some are even regular watchers of it. Huge reality check here, many grade schoolers have seen porn. Any parent who tries to pretend that their fourteen-year-old kid is some innocent corruptible who is traumatized by the images of her teacher engaging in oral sex is delusional. Unless they happen to be one of the lucky, rare few who have golden-star children that never deviate or get curious or listen to their peers.
I think you're missing the point. This isn't about if the children know what porn is, children in middle school regardless of how much they think they know are just now going through that developmental stage. So even the most "experienced" of middle schoolers are confused about sex, and porn is not real sex so to think that middle school age children wouldn't be affected by this is quite delusional in itself.

And btw I wasn't just talking about "engaging in oral sex".


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Originally Posted by ladyfreckles View Post
I think it's easy to explain, and teachers aren't supposed to be role models. They are supposed to teach. I never once tried to emulate my teachers or view them as aspiring material. For one, I'd actually try paying some attention to what my kids were doing on the internet if I cared so much about porn, and for another, it can easily be explained as a personal decision she made.
Teachers aren't supposed to be role models? In what world?
When you get a little older and have a child yourself, niece, godson, etc. then tell me how EASY that conversation would be.

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Originally Posted by ladyfreckles View Post
"Some people try to make extra money by doing things on camera that they wouldn't normally do, and that is what your teacher did. Some people are more open about sex than others, while some will do these things because they're desperate. It's important to know that you never need to do something like that for money, you always have your family here. She made that decision in the past in a tight spot. I hope you will always make good choices that won't come to bite you in the butt years later, but know that she is clearly working hard to be a good role model now."
So now she's a role model? I thought teachers weren't role models.

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Edit in: I teach horseback riding lessons now and spend my days in the barn around kids of various ages and overhearing their conversations. Most of their parents would be morbidly shocked if they found out some of the things their kids knew about. Kids are not stupid. In these days with the internet it's a lot easier to find this stuff.
Once again you are completely missing the point if you think this is about if the child knows about porn or not.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:47 AM   #39
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BVS, did you not read her next post? Apparently that's somehow not a contradiction.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:55 AM   #40
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You know what, I didn't... shame on me. I'm glad that's all cleared up now.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:16 AM   #41
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Um, no, imagining someone naked and having to face them after you've watched them in a pornographic film are two very different things.
They're really not, or at least, not in my experience (and yes I have experience with this).

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I think you're missing the point. This isn't about if the children know what porn is, children in middle school regardless of how much they think they know are just now going through that developmental stage. So even the most "experienced" of middle schoolers are confused about sex, and porn is not real sex so to think that middle school age children wouldn't be affected by this is quite delusional in itself.
They really won't be affected by it all that much. For one, had they not been looking at porn on their own in the first place they never would have found her, and for another, just how traumatized do you honestly think they are? Porn is real sex, like it or not. It is two people engaging in intercourse on video camera. Is a lot of porn unrealistic? Sure. However I don't remember ever watching it and going "oh so this is what sex is? now I'm confused!" I distinctly remember my girlfriends and I giggling over porn back in 7th grade, watching some rather graphic stuff (very off-course, definitely not vanilla) and laughing at how weird that was and how if that was sex, we sure never wanted to do that.

Sorry but it's nothing new to kids. And knowing the teacher doesn't really make a difference. Can it cause some petty drama as kids make fun of the teacher? Yeah. But the kids who found this video in the first place were intentionally looking for it so I think their minds were already there and it thus doesn't change a thing in the classroom. You'd be surprised how quickly people can disassociate something.

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And btw I wasn't just talking about "engaging in oral sex".
Still doesn't change anything.

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Teachers aren't supposed to be role models? In what world?
When you get a little older and have a child yourself, niece, godson, etc. then tell me how EASY that conversation would be.
My father HAD that conversation with me. Was it awkward? Sure, but he was completely well poised about it. I have a 1st cousin whom, yes, I inform about things. I also have had the privilege of teaching a lesson in both a 5th grade sexual education classroom as well as a 9th grade special ed sex ed classroom answering a plethora of awkward questions. Bottom line I've had similar conversations with a lot of kids, and not just the sex talk, but talking about rumors in school, leaked naked photos, porn in general, etc.

If the parents are so uptight they think it's actually difficult, that's their problem. My parents never had an issue with it, nor did my nanny or my foster parents. It's far past the time that American parents actually start trying to take sex head on and talk about it like the natural thing it is rather than stigmatizing it. We shouldn't even be having this conversation in the 21st century. Kids are not so stupid that they can't comprehend their teacher having sex for money, and a parent should be able to explain things without getting emotional about it. There is nothing wrong with having sex for money. Everything "wrong" with it has been created by society and the fact that we're treating it like it's some sort of horrific thing is ridiculous.

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So now she's a role model? I thought teachers weren't role models.
Teachers aren't supposed to be role models, they're supposed to teach. Stating that she is trying to be a good "role model" now does not mean she actually is a role model or that I think teachers should be/are role models. It merely is a different way of saying that the teacher is making a conscious effort to change her way of life and move on. Teaching a 40-50 minute on one subject with kids does not mean you are their role model or they are trying to emulate you. Six hours with a teacher in elementary school? Yes. But not in middle school. The relationship is far more removed.

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Once again you are completely missing the point if you think this is about if the child knows about porn or not.
I think that's what it boils down to though you could technically include other factors. A kid seeing another human being in the act, teacher or not, is not that traumatizing an experience. Even if they are surprised to find out that porn stars are real people, why would that make a difference? Good kids who stumbled across it on accident may feel embarrassed and try to forget about it, bad kids might go and watch it repeatedly but that's a parenting issue, and has nothing to do with the teacher.

Take some responsibility and watch what your kids are doing on the internet, for heaven's sake. Obviously you can't monitor them all the time but I find it hard to believe that there was nothing parents could do to stop eleven and twelve year old kids from watching pornography.

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BVS, did you not read her next post? Apparently that's somehow not a contradiction.
Read my above statement.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:18 AM   #42
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So now she's a role model? I thought teachers weren't role models.
Children are idiots.

Until a few years later, at which point they stop being idiots and start being little adults basically.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:19 AM   #43
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@LadyFreckles You are wrong, that's all I can say. Teachers are role models. Whether you want them to be or whether they want to be or not. We're taught to learn from our teachers. Whether on purpose or not, I'm going to learn about how I live my life from the people I'm meant to respect.

And seriously, I get bored and Google the names of people I know ALLLLLL the time. I did it for every one of my teachers in middle, junior and high school. Guess what I would've found had one of my teachers been in porn? And I wouldn't have been looking for it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:28 AM   #44
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@LadyFreckles You are wrong, that's all I can say. Teachers are role models. Whether you want them to be or whether they want to be or not. We're taught to learn from our teachers. Whether on purpose or not, I'm going to learn about how I live my life from the people I'm meant to respect.

And seriously, I get bored and Google the names of people I know ALLLLLL the time. I did it for every one of my teachers in middle, junior and high school. Guess what I would've found had one of my teachers been in porn? And I wouldn't have been looking for it.
That's why many porn stars go under a pseudonym. When people get found it's not because their name was searched. It's because someone recognized them in a video. Let's just say I know more than one person who has gotten "busted" this way.

And again, while I may have admired a teacher or two I never once tried to emulate them in middle school. The kids who did were in the few (I can think of two). But let's say middle school teacher's are role models--let's entertain that idea. What defines a good role model? How exactly is making an erotic film wrong? I do not believe there are any implications of her character based on these films or her actions. I also do not believe that the school has a right to fire her over not mentioning that job.

And those aren't rhetorical questions. I seriously wonder how you can classify erotic art (however weird and distasteful you consider the art to be) to be inherently bad or make someone a bad role model. If a girl grows up to make erotic films and enjoys it it'll be because of a lot more than some teacher happening to do it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:33 AM   #45
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Erotic art = erotic films = porn?

I've seen/watched all of the above and disagree with this line of thought. I'm sorry, a greyscale of my teacher's ass is radically different from watching her in porn. There is a gradient here.
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