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Old 06-17-2010, 08:26 PM   #46
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are you willing to see a significant increase in your own taxes, and/or a decrease in the quality of education, just so that the religious school plays by "taxpayer rules?"

Public education is this nation's dead last priority, so your horror stories just make me chuckle in a knowing way.

And any "private" entity that takes public money needs to play by the same rules as public entities. If you take public money, you have to take the public, warts and all, no discrimination for any cause. If you want to stay private and control what you can do, then stay private. End of story.
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Old 06-18-2010, 12:33 AM   #47
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I'd have to agree with martha on this one, I think. Makes sense to me.

That really sucks about how public school funding is always first up on the chopping block like that. And we can't figure out why public schools have so many problems-gee, yeah, wonder why that could be? Meanwhile superintendents and coaches can sometimes make nice little paychecks.

Angela
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Old 06-18-2010, 01:20 AM   #48
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if private schools close or significantly jack up tuition to the point where the average citizen can no longer afford to attend, the additional surpluss of students back into the public school system will ultimately result in you, the tax payer, paying more. more students either equals more teachers or bigger class sizes. bigger class sizes will of course effect the quality of education. more teachers require a full, competitive salary. and the districts will still be paying for books and transportation of students that they're already paying.

school districts, and taxpayers, save money when a kid goes to private school.

are you willing to see a significant increase in your own taxes, and/or a decrease in the quality of education, just so that the religious school plays by "taxpayer rules?"
If it means less people losing their jobs because of some hypocritical b.s. that is all about controlling what consenting adults do in the bedroom, I'll gladly pay a little bit more in taxes.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:09 AM   #49
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I'd have to agree with martha on this one, I think. Makes sense to me.

That really sucks about how public school funding is always first up on the chopping block like that. And we can't figure out why public schools have so many problems-gee, yeah, wonder why that could be? Meanwhile superintendents and coaches can sometimes make nice little paychecks.

Angela
state funding for private school is first on the chopping block, not for public schools.

and the majority of the funding that private schools get consists of money spent on transportation and books, which the schools would have to pay for anyways. private schools save public schools money. period.

and i don't know what district you're working in where coaches take home "nice little paychecks," but i'd like the information so i can submit my resume. considering as the man hours i clocked divided by my take home salary came out to about $7.33 per hour. and that's not including prep work before and after the season.

so yea... my nice little pay check pays me just over minimum wage. less than minimum wage when you count in all the extra hours. mcdonalds pays more.




and i'll just agree to disagree on the funding issue. the majority of the state aid that private schools get pays for books and transportation, which is considered to be a right of the tax payer because they are paying the taxes even though their child isn't going to the school.

again... unless you have a brilliant plan for the advancement and funding of good charter schools throughout the nation, you don't want to be fucking too much with private schools. you're really underestimating the service they provide and the amount of money they save the average tax payer.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:29 AM   #50
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again... unless you have a brilliant plan for the advancement and funding of good charter schools throughout the nation,

If you want a private education, then pay for one. Until private schools have to take everyone who walks through the door, no matter what, then you don't get to take public money.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:33 AM   #51
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that's a brilliant plan.

it costs an estimated $20,000 per year to educate one student in the public school system.

in new york state, a 1% drop in private school enrollment would add $100 million dollars per year to the bill.

a 10% drop in private school enrollment would cost the tax payers $1 billion dollars per year.

a massive shut down of the private school system? it would bankrupt most staes.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:50 AM   #52
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Public education is this nation's dead last priority, so your horror stories just make me chuckle in a knowing way.

And any "private" entity that takes public money needs to play by the same rules as public entities. If you take public money, you have to take the public, warts and all, no discrimination for any cause. If you want to stay private and control what you can do, then stay private. End of story.
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that's a brilliant plan.

it costs an estimated $20,000 per year to educate one student in the public school system.

in new york state, a 1% drop in private school enrollment would add $100 million dollars per year to the bill.

a 10% drop in private school enrollment would cost the tax payers $1 billion dollars per year.

a massive shut down of the private school system? it would bankrupt most states.
Where did I ever advocate a "massive shutdown" of private schools? All I've ever said is that if private schools don't want to play by public rules, they need to stop taking public money.

And the convoluted logic that private schools save taxpayer dollars buy sucking money from already criminally low public school funding is just ridiculous.

Private schools can do whatever the hell they want with their own money.

BUT
If you want the general public's cash, you need to take the general public as both students and teachers.
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Old 06-18-2010, 09:59 AM   #53
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if private schools, many of them religious in nature, have to face a decision where they can't abide by the rules of their respective religion or risk giving up the public funding that pays for transportation and books, then they will be forced to either jack up their tuition costs, or close. this would cause a massive drop in enrollment, at a cost of billions of dollars to the american tax payer... per year.

should compromises be made? should wording in teacher's contracts be more clear? sure. but a hardline stand where you simply force the schools to make that decision will result in a devestating financial hit.


convoluted logic? gimmie a break... the majority of the money they get is in BOOKS AND TRANSPORTATION. the people who are sending their kids to these schools are also taxpayers who are paying for these basic services.

there is no convoluted logic involved here. by any math, private schools save the tax payer money. period.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:13 AM   #54
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if private schools, many of them religious in nature, have to face a decision where they can't abide by the rules of their respective religion or risk giving up the public funding that pays for transportation and books, then they will be forced to either jack up their tuition costs, or close.

Then that's the way it is.

You either take everyone who pays taxes, or you don't get the taxes.

Again, your horror stories of underfunded education overrun by former private school students don't scare me.

Now I'm off to chew on a bagel and go teach my public school students for another day.
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Old 06-18-2010, 10:56 AM   #55
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Again, your horror stories of underfunded education overrun by former private school students don't scare me.
they should.

the majority of money that taxpayers give is involved in money that they would be spending anyways. the school has to provide an education for every student in their district. the average cost per student per year is $20,000. if that student decides to go to private school, the school saves approximately $15,000 per student, give or take. if you think the underfunding and overcrowding is bad now, just wait. again... a 1% drop in enrollment would cost the public schools about $100 million dollars per year. an already underfunded, overcrowded and cash straped state system couldn't handle such an influx of students. what is bad now would be made exponentially worse.

agree to disagree. enjoy your bagel.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:30 PM   #56
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agree to disagree. enjoy your bagel.

Agreed.


It was delicious.
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Old 06-21-2010, 01:07 PM   #57
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was it an everything?
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Old 06-21-2010, 02:56 PM   #58
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I've worked in private Christian schools for all of my career and my understanding is that private schools don't just get a lump sum of federal or state money that they can spend in whatever way they choose. Private schools apply for grant money and they may or may not get it. There are very strict restrictions on what government funds can be used for--for example they can only be used for things that will be directly used by the students. The government will not pay for any items that are religious in nature. In both schools I worked at grant money was most often used for technology-computers, projectors, things like that. The school does not include this money in its budget.

And there are some Christian schools--the really conservative ones--that refuse to apply for any government money, as they fear that they will be forced to comply with federal education requirements.

However, in both schools--the one in Saipan as well as the school I work at now in Ohio there were other ways that our school got funding via the government. In Saipan, the territory had something called ETC (Educational Tax Credit) which allowed businesses to pay up to $5000 annually of their business taxes to any school (private or public) instead of paying it to the government. For schools that were willing to do the footwork of contacting local businesses, explaining the law, and getting the businesses on board this could be a huge windfall. I heard (though I don't know if it's true) that at least one school (not a religious one incidentally) depended on ETC for up to half it's budget. This money could be spent in any way the school chose--in fact businesses were not allowed to dictate how the money could be spent. Though they weren't supposed to there were cases where a business would only donate ETC to your organization if you chose them as a vendor. For example, if you paid a certain carpet cleaning company to clean your school's carpet then they would also become an ETC donor.

Our school never included ETC in our budget because the money is not guaranteed. You have to solicit businesses every quarter and you can't always be sure they'll continue to give, but we did benefit from it, sometimes earning up to $25,000 or $30,000 in a year.

The Northern Marianas government (of which Saipan is a part) is basically broke so there has been some suggestion that they should eliminate ETC so that all of the tax money goes into the government coffers instead of being siphoned off to the schools. However the govt. is so pathetically corrupt, inefficient, and wasteful, that I personally think the money is better spent on ETC.

Here in Ohio we have what basically amounts to a voucher program called EdChoice, which allows parents whose children would have to go to a "failing" public school to send their kids to a private school instead, with the state picking up the tab. The state decides how much they will allot per EdChoice student and most private schools, in what I concede is a rather questionable ethical practice, set their tuition to match that amount so they can get the maximum allotment of EdChoice funds per student. (For non-EdChoice students, the school provides a "scholarship" that makes the tuition lower for those students who don't qualify). Unlike in Saipan, my school really does depend on these funds because our enrollment would be much, much lower without EdChoice. In my class alone, I think everyone except for two students were EdChoice students. Of course in this scenario, the state isn't being saved any money as was suggested by Headache.

I could understand public school supporters getting pretty steamed about this setup--I know there's not a lot of support for vouchers among public school teachers. I don't really feel a need to defend the policy (or to apologize for it). It just is what it is. I'm here to educate the kids put in front of me. I don't worry about much beyond that.
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Old 06-21-2010, 07:25 PM   #59
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was it an everything?
Sesame seed.

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Of course in this scenario, the state isn't being saved any money as was suggested by Headache.

I could understand public school supporters getting pretty steamed about this setup--I know there's not a lot of support for vouchers among public school teachers.

Because it siphons money away from public schools, like in your example.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:05 PM   #60
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Because it siphons money away from public schools, like in your example.
Yeah, I know it does. I've got mixed feelings about the whole thing.
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