Teacher Ejects Student For Saying "I Don't Accept Gays" - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 11-18-2010, 08:40 PM   #16
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I think a ban on a Confederate symbol is a violation of the first Amendment.
If it causes a disruption and the learning process is impeded, then it can be banned in schools.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:50 PM   #17
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One happened to their own anscestors in their own backyard and other kids are rubbing it in their faces... probably not the case with Che or ironic shirts.
Is a Black Panther t-shirt acceptable?
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:15 PM   #18
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Is a Black Panther t-shirt acceptable?
In a school? I would say no.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:23 PM   #19
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In a school? I would say no.


Should free speech be banned in school?
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:30 PM   #20
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Should free speech be banned in school?
You work in a school, correct?

You have a dress code there, correct? You have certain policies towards speech correct?

Schools are a different environment and full freedom of speech has never been expected.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:38 PM   #21
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You work in a school, correct?

You have a dress code there, correct? You have certain policies towards speech correct?

Schools are a different environment and full freedom of speech has never been expected.



My reply was not about a dress code, but free speech.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:43 PM   #22
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My reply was not about a dress code, but free speech.
But it was in response to a conversation about t-shirts. Context...

So your school doesn't have policies on speech or dress?
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:59 PM   #23
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Should free speech be banned in school?
I'll tell you what, my day goes a lot smoother and, you know, kids are actually able to learn, when certain types of speech are prohibited.
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:44 PM   #24
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Should free speech be banned in school?
Can you tell a teacher you think he's an asshole and expect no repercussions?
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Old 11-19-2010, 02:41 AM   #25
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As regards the Confederacy belt buckle and general issues around the Confederacy flag, it seems to me that there's a really odd kind of hypocrisy in the building about this one, because the liberal left, interestingly enough, have not thus far called for the banning of Che Guevera t-shirts ('cos Che represents freedom and equality, dude) and (no doubt, joking and ironic) t-shirts commemorating Stalin, Lenin and the like in high schools and college campuses.
Are there not rules in Northern Ireland concerning children wearing nationalist/unionist symbols and slogans in school?

Your analogies here are pretty far off-base. No one wears rebel flag apparel in a "joking and ironic" manner, nor is it roundly perceived as ho-hum faux-revolutionary chic, the way Che T-shirts are; I mean those are pretty much a standing international joke at this point, sold alongside tie-dye bikinis in souvenir stalls from LA to Mumbai. Confederate flag clothing is its own thing and there's no exact analogy, but it's more like wearing the Nazi party flag than it is like wearing the Black Panther icon (which hardly anyone does, anyway). With a key difference being that most all Americans, upon seeing the Nazi flag, think first and foremost about who was 'excluded' by that polity, and what the costs of that 'exclusion' were, so that there's almost no difference between (e.g.) how the average Jewish-American kid would view it and (e.g.) how the average German-American kid would view it. Unfortunately, the rebel flag is not like that, hence the potential for "disruption" in the closed environment of the classroom.
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Old 11-19-2010, 04:03 AM   #26
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I'm agree with you that it's likely McDowell was trying to stand up for gay students in the class (maybe even himself?) & that was the impetus for his comments. And I appreciate that he didn't want the male student to be given a forum to intimidate anyone - but what if they'd been discussing the Holocaust & this student stated he didn't accept that? Or if they'd been discussing Darwin & the student said he didn't accept evolution? The boy's entitled to those opinions, whether the teacher likes them or not. I think a better way for McDowell to have kept the conversation from going somewhere he "didn't want it to go" would have to been to simply state that his classroom wasn't the place to debate the subject & moved on. That way, he doesn't force his views on anyone else & the student isn't given opportunity to bully his peers.
Exactly. And if the kid had continued to be increasingly disruptive and obnoxious beyond that point, then you escort them out.

Once again, okay, so he got kicked out of the class for the day. Didn't teach him anything. He could still come back and say the same thing again. Maybe not in that particular classroom, because he knows the consequences that would result there, but he could say it in another class, maybe in front of a teacher who happened to agree with him. Or maybe in the lunchroom amongst friends. Or out in the schoolyard. He's still going to think the way he does, may even be emboldened by this action. We haven't really "solved" anything here, other than to give kids a reprieve for one class from such insulting comments. Yet AGAIN, it's another instance of sweeping the problem out of the way=doesn't exist, problem solved. That never works.

If I were the teacher I'd probably have done what BluRmGrl suggested, then after class I would have talked to the kid and told him that that kind of language is not appropriate for school and all that sort of thing. Then I might have tried to figure out a way to get him to see things from gay kids' point of view, maybe even brought his parents in for a conference or something to discuss how hurtful that kind of statement is to people. And I would have talked to the school administration and worked with them to make sure the rest of the kids at school got that message, too. It shouldn't have to fall to the school to teach kids something their parents should have taught them ages ago, but nowadays, such is the case, it seems, sadly.

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Old 11-19-2010, 03:23 PM   #27
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... "your religion" more than likely does not tell you you "don't accept gays".
This is true and I wish more people understood this. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Old 11-22-2010, 12:21 PM   #28
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It is absolutely true, in spite of the stereotypes that some people put forth about Christians. Just to make it clear I wasn't saying at all that this kid's supposed religious beliefs gave him any right to say such a thing and I do believe it is hate speech, because it would be if he had said the same thing about African Americans or Jewish people or any other "category" of people. But it is a public school so any alleged "religious beliefs" have no place in the classroom. That's not the reason why he didn't have the right to say it, but it's just a small part and parcel.

I think this case raises many interesting questions-also concerning what the teacher was told about wearing the shirt that he was wearing.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:47 AM   #29
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Agreed, Iron_Horse.

As regards the Confederacy belt buckle and general issues around the Confederacy flag, it seems to me that there's a really odd kind of hypocrisy in the building about this one, because the liberal left, interestingly enough, have not thus far called for the banning of Che Guevera t-shirts ('cos Che represents freedom and equality, dude) and (no doubt, joking and ironic) t-shirts commemorating Stalin, Lenin and the like in high schools and college campuses.

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